Ultimate plea for advice

[pupinabox]

I am in need of expert advice and expertise.

I have an 81 EFI TR7 that is as close to showroom shape as can probably be found. I also have an 80 Carbed TR8 that is in sound mechanical shape (Engine, Trans, Brakes, Shocks). During a little tinkering session I discovered a bit of rust under the car, one thing lead to another and I am finding all kinds of hidden rust under paint and undercoating the PO put on, and to make a long story short, the cancer has spread all over and poking at it with a screwdriver is making me sick to my stomach.

The wife is also starting to lose her sense of humor about parking her car in the driveway year round to accomidate the Triumph facility in the garage.

Here is what I am thinking about doing (after a couple weeks of intensive goolge searches and other research):

Is it possible to put the mechanical 8 parts onto the 7 body on kind of a one for one swap basis?

Before I go any further I have already mulled over the ethical or legal issues of a 7 becoming an 8, and can I call it and 8 and what not, and I don't really care about any of that. This car will probably be my car until I depart this earth, and I just want to enjoy a beautiful Wedge with a powerful drivetrain.

Here are my thoughts on accomplishing this if I decide to go forward:

Fuel tank needs swapped.
Rear axle needs swapped, including sway bar, springs, shocks, trail arm bars.
Radiator needs swapped.
My thoughts after looking over shop manuals are to drop the engine and transmission as one piece along with the front suspension attached to the subframe as to include the power steering.

Of course, now I could use the technical help. It is my understanding that the late body shells were designed for both the 7 or 8 models, so they are virtually identical, theoretically making this a fairly simple matter of changing out the parts. Am I missing something or alot of somethings here? Engine/bonnet clearance? Mounts? Something? Anything?

I would really like to do this and take EVERYTHING apart and powder coat and replace this and that, however finances and desire to get things done preclude that. If this is possible, I would like to get it done and then later down the line break down some components and do the paint and replace and upgrade stuff.

Any advice and thoughts appreciated.

[IMG=left]http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t194/pupinabox/353.jpg[/IMG=left][IMG=right]http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t194/pupinabox/tr7005.jpg?t=1271517043[/IMG=right]

[MickeyR]

Not necessarily "expert" advice, but I think this says it all:

"Before I go any further I have already mulled over the ethical or legal issues of a 7 becoming an 8, and can I call it and 8 and what not, and I don't really care about any of that. This car will probably be my car until I depart this earth, and I just want to enjoy a beautiful Wedge with a powerful drivetrain."

The reality is that these cars are probably not going to be revered the way "classic" TR's are - ever. So, why would anyone <i>in your position</i> think twice about making the swap? The only major difference between the two is the subframe. And if your TR8 subframe is in good shape, you're good to go.

Just my .02...

Mickey

[jclay (RIP 2018)]

Here, Read [url="http://homepage.mac.com/jclaythompson/.cv/jclaythompson/Sites/.Public/Triumph_Articles/Can%E2%80%99t%20find%20a%20clean%20used%20TR8.doc-zip.zip"]this![/url]

Clay

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[PeterTR7V8]

Don't use the EFI for the conversion. It is too nice for that. I'm hearing that you're ready to reduce your Triumph fleet to 1 car so sell both cars & buy a pre-converted TR7V8. You'd save a lot of time & bother & it would probably come out almost even on cost.

The body shells are the same as far as I know. You should be able to drop the motor, transmission, sub-frame & suspension & bolt them onto to any shell. Fuel tanks only differ from EFI to carb models.

[MickeyR]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Century Gothic, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by jclay</i>

Here, Read [url="http://homepage.mac.com/jclaythompson/.cv/jclaythompson/Sites/.Public/Triumph_Articles/Can%E2%80%99t%20find%20a%20clean%20used%20TR8.doc-zip.zip"]this![/url]

Clay

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

<font size="2"> Nice read, Clay - thanks!

Mickey </font id="size2">

[V8Wedgehead]

The swap is very straight forward. The body shells for a TR7 or TR8 from late 1979 onward are identical! Here is what I would do if you are to use the TR7 body and parts:
-Gas Tanks are the same for a fuel injected TR7 and TR8. They both have two openings. One is for the fuel gauge and the other is for the fuel pump. The carb TR8 has the pump inside the tank and the FI 7&8s have it externally. Keep the tank in and swap out the pump/fuel outlet.
-Rear axles are different gearing wise. The TR8 has a 3.08:1 and the TR7 has 3.45:1. I prefer the 3.45:1 for better acceleration and also it will not hurt highway. Control arms and sway bar is the same for a TR7 & 8. The brake shoes are the same but the wheel cylinders are different but not a huge issue is using either.
-The alternators are the same for AC TR7 or TR8. The only thing you need to do is take the three bolts out, loosen the case and move the mounting ear/tab.
-The tach will need to be swapped out since the 7 tach is calibrated for a 4 cylinder and the 8 for an 8 cylinder. The rest of the gauges are the same.
-You will need the TR8 driveshaft since it is shorter for the TR8. You will also need the transmission cross member too since it bolts to the same spot but has more reward angle for the V8 offset. Speedo cables are the same and the wiring harness.
-If you use the TR8 power steering rack you will need the steering arms all the way up to the firewall since they are also different between a TR7 & 8. The strut inserts are the almost the same. The front brakes are different and the spring rates and the arms for the tie rod ends so swap the struts from the 8 into the 7. The brake lines are all the same. The brake booster is bigger for the TR8 to match the bigger brakes so you will need that and the wiper box cover plate behind it. The TR8 is recessed for the bigger sized booster and the TR7 is flat for the smaller booster.
-The TR8 radiator assembly is different so you will need the 8 assembly.
-If you have AC in both cars and want to keep the stuff the only items that are the same are the relays and relay mount on the front drivers side headlamp area, evaporator canister and the heater-ac core. The hoses, condensers, compressors, and mounting hardware are not the same.
-All the dual exhaust mounting brackets are already on the body so no worries there and also the radiator holes in the front frame rails.
The big deal item is if you want to retain the 81 TR7 harness and adapt it for the V8 which is possible. You can use the same alternator, shorten the starter wires, extend/shorten the temp sender, oil pressure and other additional wires. You will need to make the fuel pump wiring work from the FI pump wiring. The ignition may get tricky buy a majority of the wires are in place in the TR7 harness but may need to be extended to run up to the front.


Michael
1980 TR8 FHCs; Rally Conversion #0020 & Stock #0058

"If it is broken then fix it....if it is not then make it faster!"

[Underdog]

Unfortunately, TR7s are not worth much over here no matter how nice. TR8s bring more but not what one would expect given the low numbers. So, I can see where your project would make sense. Everything should bolt right up. This came up on another forum. The opinion was that the shells are identical. The Vin # is what designates a "real" TR8 from a conversion. Since you own both cars the VINs could be swaped although there would be the problem of colors. And you would need to be complete with the swap down to battery location ect.

You stated that you don't care about what it ends up being called and you probably won't be selling it. That's OK but if things change and you decide to let it go, it will be wise to disclose what has been done. If you stick with the TR7 VIN it will have to be sold as a conversion. If you keep the TR8 VIN, I would still disclose that it has been rebodied. I saw a converted TR7 presented and sold as a TR8. The seller felt he was doing no wrong in representing it as such. A lawyer and judge felt differently.

BTW, I have an 81 TR7 rear in my car 3.45 ratio. So you could keep the rear if you like acceleration more than cruiseing. Also the late 5spd has a taller 5th gear so you may want to use the TR7 trans also.

Jim Underwood
72 MGB BRG
80 TR8 Persian Aqua
If women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.

[FI Spyder]

Use a showroom FI TR7 for a TR7V8 (it will never be a TR8)? Better ways to go. Although not a "classic" now, at least amongst the "snobbery class" they are gaining ground. And they are amongst the rarest of cars at any car show be it a 150 car local show of a smaller club or a 600+ car show like Van Dusen or Portand were only 4 and 2 showed up respectively last year. Better to get a standard TR7 with sound body to do the swamp even better if it's a mid project car. As you may know I picked up my rust free Yellow TCT for $100 and while you may not find that deal you certainly get a good one with some searching and a little time. Or better yet try and find a TR8 that is mechanicaly knacked although this will be that hardest thing to do.

My FI TR7 gets more attention than TR6's, MGB's, Jag XKE's, Morgan's that are worth much more because it's the only one vesus the dozens to 50 of the others that are lined up in a row and make the general publics eye's glaze over.

I can appreciate the "Why are those two cars in the garage while birds are pooping on my car" attitude of the SO, sometimes a mans go to do what a mans got to do.[B)]

Better to sell the FI and use the money to buy a good body and use the balance on conversion incidentals (and buy the wife a bouquet, they always like flowers) if two cars in the garage is not in the future.

So in short it's like using a old Bentley to turn it into a Rolls Royce, it will never be a Rolls Royce although it will look like it and there would be one less old Bentley around.


TR7 Spider - 1978 Spifire - 1976 Spitfire - 1988 Tercel 4X4 - Kali on Integra - 1991 Integra

[Steve-LPS-Thomas]

Whilst your male mind is exploring these options your wife may perhaps already subconciously be going down a different route. To the female mind this parking issue may be best solved by moving house, although she may not have reached that conclusion... yet!

<hr noshade size="1">


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<b><font color="blue">croydebay@aol.com</b></font id="blue">

[Underdog]

I had the same thoughts as Spyder but remembered that when my 8 was wrecked, I didn't have much luck locating a good donor TR7 for a tub. If you can find an exellent TR7 tub, that could be a way to go. Despite hopefull predictions, I don't see these cars ever getting beyond the price of a decent used daily driver. At least not in my lifetime.[:(] Certainly not in my retirement plan.

In the end it is your car/cars. Do as you like. Michael certainly outlined the process in great detail.

Jim Underwood
72 MGB BRG
80 TR8 Persian Aqua
If women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.

[busheytrader]

There are plenty of us in the UK who converted their own 7's to TR7V8's. (If I can do it then anyone can) The handful of genuine RHD TR8's are highly prized and expensive.

Common underbody cars came down the production line when the DHC was introduced. The required exhaust and radiator pickup points are all there. IIRC, the Canley built cars have their chassis plate riveted onto one of the turret tops where as the later Solihull cars have it stamped (as well?) on the boot (trunk) gutter. Which one would be easier to transfer your TR8 ID to?

Adam



TR7 V8 DHC Jaguar Solent Blue. 9.35cr Range Rover V8, Holley 390cfm, JWR Dual Port, 214 Cam, Lumention, Tubular Manifolds, S/S Single Pipe Exh, 3.08 Rear, 200lb Spax & PolyBushes all round, Anti- Dive, Strut-Top Roller Bearings, Capri Vented Discs & Calipers, Braided Hoses, 4 Speed Rear Cylinders, Uprated Master Cylinder & Servo, AT 5 Spokes and Cruise Lights, S/S Heater Pipes, Replacement Fuel Tank. No Door Stickers. Mine since July 1986, V8 from 1991

[pupinabox]

Thanks for the thoughts so far. I figured there would be some ideas on value and identity. I still have some researching to do, but as far as the above goes, the chasis plates and vin #'s and all is fine, but I kind of like to think of these as just "wedges". I don't know how it is in the UK or Oz, but I have found that here, 95% of the people I see when I do get the change to cruise around don't even know what the car is. I got these cars as my mid-life crisis because the wife thought it better than a girlfriend[:D], and I had a couple white 76 victory editions FHC 30 years ago. I also had the urge to do some tinkering (boy did that ever work out, ha).

Anyway, The biggest concern about trying this, at least for me, is the wiring. An electrical engineer I am not. Anybody have any more detailed thoughts on that I would appreciate it. I will do some looking around in the next couple days and try to come back with more specific wiring concerns.

[IMG=left]http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t194/pupinabox/353.jpg[/IMG=left][IMG=right]http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t194/pupinabox/tr7005.jpg?t=1271517043[/IMG=right]

[Workshop Help]

From the perspective of the feminine side of the equation, Fair is Fair. The He-male has his car under cover, so should the She-male. Since the He-male has too many toys, he needs to put one of them in another toy box.

In other words, build a separate garage or find a rented covered storage space.

From the perspective of a car guy/gal/creature from another planet or from the center of the earth. Once you have made up your mind in a logical manner and gone out to find another donor body, move the good FI car to the rent-a-closet and quickly swap the good pieces from one heap to the other. Then almost instantly, haul off the junk body. This will leave the space in the garage for milady's vehicle and keep the junk pile down to a manageable level.

Granted, the work involved in preparing the new body may take some time, do it off site at the rent-a-closet. That way the then ready body can be wheeled in and the installation of the stripped off parts can commence. Then with the fresh, new car you will then get to decide how to keep them both. Here, technology races to the rescue with the garage hoist as seen in various car magazines or Hemmings. One stacked on top of the other under the same roof with her car next to them.

That's how this old girl would do it.

Mildred Hargis

[Last TR]

The technicalities have been very well covered. My 2 cents worth on the issue of monetary value: In 1966 I bought a nine-year old MGA for $450. It was just an old beater and would never be a classic, I was told. The conventional wisdom at the time was that the MGTC was the only real classic MG worth anything. Even the TD and TF were somewhat marginalized at the time. Today the MGA is a highly valued classic worth as much as a T series MG. While I'm not counting on retiring on the worth of my MGA, or either of my Triumphs, I suspect a good Wedge may eventually be worth as much as an earlier TR.

Ken
Anchorage, Alaska

1980 TR8, 1973 TR6, 1965 Volvo PV544, 1958 MGA, Jeep Cherokees