Santa has been already!

[nofinchance]

It seems I have been both naughty and nice as for Christmas my Family have sent my TR and the bits I collected to a garage to fit the new gearbox,clutch,mountings and bushes[:D].After months of promises they have paid someone which is a shame as I wanted to do it with help[8)].I must have been naughty as well though cuz santa has left a sting in the prezzie.The speedo now does not work[V].I have had a look and it seems to be connected at both ends and will spin and turn the speedo head so it must be broken[:(].Now ordering parts is difficult as the cable comes in two types depending on the cars build date and if you have a push or cable reset speedo head.I have a '81 car with a cable reset speedo head so my car falls into both catagories[:I].Also the gearbox drive comes in two types green or black depending on axle ratio.I do not know my axle ratio[?].I presume as they have different amounts of teeth they will give different readings.My speedo used to read low anyway by about 10 MPH so what do I need[?].I seem to get the garages that mend one thing and bust another!!!! Curse you mr mechanic[:o)]

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[zoe]

ohh Steph , thats great your getting your gearbox done , you must
be really pleased . zoe

[stevie_a]

<font color="maroon"><b>Nice one steph

Zoe and myself were just talking about you today

All good of course </b> </font id="maroon">

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<font size="4"><font color="green"><i>If it's not broke don't fix it.</i></font id="green"></font id="size4">

[InfilTR8]

SOO000oooooooo ! [:)] MERRY CHRISTMAS ! [:I] [:D]

Ima TRyFixTR8 my first Triumph

[Workshop Help]

We've been thru this before with more than a little acrimony ensuing. So let's do it again.

To begin, are you saying the speedo cable will turn from the gearbox end and turn the speedometer? If so, the cable is not broken. But, if it is broken you will need a new one piece speedometer cable. I have written an article here in the forums about speedo cables, you may wish to search the forums and read it. The cable is the same as all the rest of the TR7's except for the two piece cable for the U.S. bound cars in the early production run thru 1977.

As for the speedo gear color, you will need to determine what your rear end ratio is by scraping off the grunge from the differential and seeing what the code is. You will probaly have a 3:90/1 gears in there, or you could have the 3:45/1 gears. For the 3:90/1 ratio, a black speedo gear was used. For the 3:45/1 ratio, a 21 teeth, green speedo gear was used. The 3:08/1 ratio in the TR8 used a red 22 teeth speedo gear.

Given the many years that have passed since your car came off the production line, there is no telling what has transpired to the car in the past 28 years. The only sure way to tell is to take a best guess and install the speedo gear closet to what you know then take the car out and see what the speedometer reads at 60mph in fourth gear and the corresponding tachometer reading at the same time. Or, find a friendly policeman with a radar gun and have him clock you as you go past at a steady speed of 60mph in fourth gear. If there is a sizeable difference in speed readings, change out the speedo gear, then test again. Or, a rolling road can do the same thing.

You will want to use fourth gear as this is direct drive while fifth gear is an over drive ratio. In fourth gear at 60mph with a 3:63/1 ratio rear end, the tachometer will read right at 3275rpm. A 3:90/1 ratio will read higher and a 3:45/1 ratio will read lower. I'm sure other distinguished members of the forum with their slide rules handy will be glad to compute the tachometer readings for the other ratios.

Once you have sorted it all out, you will be our resident expert on speedometer gears and speedo cables. We eagerly look forward to your progress reports.

By the way, are sure the yutzos who did the work put all the pieces back together and didn't have any parts left over like the speedo gear plate and gear?

Mildred Hargis

[Cobber]

<font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS">As Mildred says, the speedo cable should be OK if you can turn it at one end and can see that it turns at the other.
Once you've determined that you can look at the speed drive gear, Are the teeth worn or even missing? fit the gear to the cable, now turn the gear, does the other end of the cable turn? if it does then that's not likely to be the trouble.
What colour is the existing speedo drive gear? Was the speedo accurate using that gear? If the answer to that last Question is yes, then the gear you need will be the same as the one you already have.

A lot of the time the cause for a cactus speedo is that the cable simply hasn't been connected quite right, so try fitting it again and see what happens, you have to make sure the driven core of the cable locates properly at the speedo end.
Keep plugging away with it, you'll get there and remember your learning more all the time, gaining confidence, and you'll be rewarded with that lovely smug feeling that self achievement brings! [:D]</font id="Comic Sans MS"></font id="size2">

80'Triumph TR7, , 73'Land Rover (Ford 351. V8),
'89 Ford Fairlane
85'Alfa 90, 69'Ford F250.
76' Ford F100

[nofinchance]

I was very pleased with my surprise thanks Zoe,until I drove my car and found the speedo is now bust[V].What were you and stevie A saying about me[?] All good I hope[:X].Thanks for the info Mildred and others however I am still in the dark here(and the grease[:0])Let me explain again why I diagnose a broken cable.
I crawled under the car first to check the cable was actualy in the gearbox extension(using axle stands mr heatlh an saftey[;)])This was an area hard to locate as the Haynes book does not mention speedo cables anywhere or infact instument cluster,speedo head or speedo drive As useual it says 'remove speedometer cable from the gearbox end' Thanks mr vague [xx(].Anyway that is in the box and I am going to remove it to check the drive colour and assembly soon.So then I pulled the dash apart and was hopeing the cable was detached from the head end.It is connected and if you turn it between thumb and forefinger just behind the speedo head the speedo will register.Now the speedo cables shroud is pulled back about 6inches exposing just the inner cable and will not pull back up.I gave the innner cable a pull and you could remove the whole thing if you wanted as it has no resistence suggesting it is either broken or not connected properly in the gearbox[:(].The other thing that bothers me is the routing of the speedo cable as it goes over the top of the box them bends round into the drive.Is this correct[?].If I need anew cable are you all saying that this model year and push button reset thing is not relevant as long as I get a one piece TR7 cable[?] I am well P***** off now with garages as some of you may remember my 3+ month trial with a 'Triumph expert' who also broke more than he repaired[}:)].Now these muppets have created another job for me.This is why I wanted to do any work myself and now If I moan too much about my gift of the gearbox fitting I am an ungratefull B****[:0].

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[Steve @ SandS]

If you have a cable reset speedo you will need an early speedo cable GSD287, if it's a 5 spd manual you will need a black speedo drive gear 219004.
Not saying that it is the cause but you may be jumping the gun blaming the garage, the fault may lie inside your new gearbox with the internal speedo drive being stripped (the one that the black drive will engage into)


Steve @ S&S Preparations

[Workshop Help]

Dearie, I fear you're overworking the situation.

Please SEARCH the forum for my article on speedometer cable maintenance.

The way to test the speedometer cable is to leave it connected at the speedometer head and disconnect it at the gearbox connection. With a lovely assistant observing the speedometer needle, twist the inner cable. If the lovely assistant says the speedometer needle is moving, the speedometer cable is okay.

As for the rear end ratio, according to my source book, the serial code for the 3:90/1 ratio starts with CH. The serial code for the 3:45/1 ratio is CL. The serial code for the 3:08/1 ratio is CM. However, this may be meaningless if the crown & pinion gears have been changed in the past. These codes are stamped on the differential, which means you will get to scrape clean the accumulated grunge with a steel wire brush and lots of sloppy solvent.

By learning what your rear end ratio is will determine the correct color speedometer gear to use. The black gear has 23 teeth and was used on the 3:90/1 ratio and the four speed 3:63/1 ratio.

The final test is to have the lovely assistant start the car while it is securely in the air, put it in gear, and with the speedometer cable disconnected from the gearbox, you observe if the fitting is revolving. If not, the nylon inner gear on the gearbox mainshft is stripped and/or the outer gear is stripped. This would, to use an American vernacular, 'be a bad day at Black Rock'. Should this be the case, you may wish to reevaluate the overall condition of the gearbox itself. I do sincerely hope this is not the problem.

As for the cable itself, being a cable or push-button reset is irrelevant. As Steve mentions, up to VIN 402027, Part # GSD287 was the called for cable. After VIN 402027, Part # GSD388 was used. I suspect the only difference was a minor variation in length. We use the earlier cable and it is a bit tight for my taste but has given no problem for the past 25 years.

It is times like this that kinda-sorta makes me wish we all lived within 10 miles of each other so we could first hand get these problems solved. But, then later, I realize such closeness would cause everyone to start getting on each others nerves. Maybe it's best this way.

Mildred Hargis

[zoe]

Steph , i said to stevie a that you hadnt had the gearbox done yet !! and when i got home i read that it had gone in ! zoe

[bmcecosse]

I can't remember now - why was the gearbox being changed ? If the speedo now not working I would be taking it back to place that did the work! Either they haven't connected it properly - or the drive is missing from the 'new' box - and should perhaps have been transferred over from the old box ?

[nofinchance]

I have amazed myself and repaired something[:p].I sort of answerd my own question as the cable outer sleeve was just mounted at the gearbox end(rammed in[V]) without the inner cable connecting to anything.I had to get the instument cluster out to sort it by sliding the cable back into the outer sleeve then reconnecting everything.This job solved another problem as I had some dash faults so made a good one outa two with a spare clock set I came by.I kinda guessed it was a garage fault as they had my daily driver for a warrenty repair and did not finish that job properly either!! They are not my choice the warrenty company made me use them and this refurbed gearbox was fitted as a surprise for me as I have waited months for my husband and his mates workshop.Surprise we have bust your speedo[:D]....but the gearbox is in [:X] I tell you what if it had been a gearbox problem after all this then It would be petrol and matches time[}:)].The other downside is because I have had to finish this shoddy work I have missed the NEC show.ho hum there is always next year.Thanks all for your input on this latest problem[:X]

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[FI Spyder]

Glad to hear you have the problem fixed. Just a footnote to what had gone before. The cable goes over the gear box because in N/A the cable goes to the left side of the dash therefore doesn't go over the gearbox. It didn't make sense to have different castings on the gearbox so it came out the left side on all. The second thing is those cars with a service indicator had a short (two piece) cable that came from the service indicator to the speedo. I've not seen it available from the usual sources but there was someone selling (I believe NOS) ones on eBay. I picked up a spare just in case I need one for the Spider as it has a service indicator for the Ox sensor. Those of you with FI cars might want to grab one if they are still being offered.



TR7 Spider - 1978 Spifire - 1976 Spitfire - 1988 Tercel 4X4 - Kali on Integra - 1991 Integra

[nofinchance]

OOOOOO I see.Thanks mr spyder.I suppose I can see the accontants logic in that cable routing[:o)].I wonder if any more of the TR7's design suffers because of the left hand right hand thing? Of course the car was designed with you Canadians and Americans in mind.Us in the land of it's birth were just an afterthought[:(].

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[FI Spyder]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Century Gothic, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by nofinchance</i>

Of course the car was designed with you Canadians and Americans in mind.Us in the land of it's birth were just an afterthought[:(].
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Remember 9 out of 10 TR7's were sold in N/A (and 10% of those in California alone hence it's own letter in the VIN as the polution requirements made a different car out of them.)

That's why they were designed for the N/A market according to what the N/A dealers wanted and said they could sell. (Sorry MG guys, mid engine, hydrolastic suspensions just weren't in the picture). Also why cold weather testing was done in Canada and so we got a decent heater.

TR7 Spider - 1978 Spifire - 1976 Spitfire - 1988 Tercel 4X4 - Kali on Integra - 1991 Integra