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running in

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gaz
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running in

Postby gaz » 07 Mar 2009 06:39

when an engine has been re-built is it best to use a running in oil or just go in straight in with good quality 20/50 and change after say 500 miles or so and then keep up with a change every 3000 miles or so.......

and how many miles till the revs are dared to be raised bearing in mind the engine is now very tight............

It rides again.....
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tr7jim
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Postby tr7jim » 07 Mar 2009 07:45

Gaz,

I would go for the 20/50 one and keep the revs down till e.g. no racing and change the oil after 500 miles.

Engine bays looking well, anymore news on if you can get your motrhome in at the Pageant of power.

Jim

gaz
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Postby gaz » 07 Mar 2009 07:57

cheers jim......

i'm still working on it they will take the motorhome no probs but to throw a spanner in the works you can't take dogs neever even entered my mind race track -dogs- not a good idea really he's one of those go everywhere little fellas "Jack Russell" i even tried blagging that he was the official TR Drivers Club Mascot (sorry) but that didn't work either........
so i'm still working on it by the way if i make it would there be room for the little tr7 as well........

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Wayne S
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Postby Wayne S » 07 Mar 2009 08:07

Hi Gaz, the best source of running in oil is Wilkinsons or Morrisons. They both do a REALLY cheap 20 50w that works a treat. Drop it in, then change after 500, and then 1000. After a 1000 you can pop the good stuff in and its not cost you a lot to run in.

Wayne

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tr7jim
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Postby tr7jim » 07 Mar 2009 10:34

Gaz,

The little TR would look very good and a little running dog at Pageant of power could cause some serious accidents. That good news that the motorhome ok to be on the stand, anygood at making cuppers.

Waynes advice sounds good but the main thing is work the engine in slowly its not like the modern engine, which is made to much higher tollerances.

Jim

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Postby Underdog » 07 Mar 2009 11:57

Assumeing a new cam & lifters, make sure to keep the revs up to around 2000 for the first 15-20 min after initial fireup. I hope you coated the cam & lifter faces with the special cam lube. Over here, Brad Penn is a company that makes oil specifically targeted at the older engine (flat tappet) market. Thier reccomended breakin oil is 10/30.

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jclay (RIP 2018)
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Postby jclay (RIP 2018) » 07 Mar 2009 12:09

<i><b>"cuppers"</b></i> Huh?

jclay

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Hasbeen
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Postby Hasbeen » 07 Mar 2009 14:04

I don't believe in these long "running in" periods for modern, or
semi modern engines. Running in was a myth, perpetuated by car
makers, so car buyers could remind themselves, for a couple of
months, that they had a new car.

Many are the stories of new cars, in the 60/70s, being given a good
thrash, at valve bounce revs, at 2 or 3 thousand miles, by a service
adviser, to cure the excess oil consumption, caused by overly
gentle "running in" by careful owners. A good thrash would finally
bed the rings, or so the thinking went.

Once upon a time we had funny little men, usually with lung
problems, pouring molton white metal into all sorts of places in our
engines. Other men would use hand tools trying to make those areas
round. Thus we had main, big end, camshaft, & other such bearings
which were sort of round. These bearings required
considerable "running in", if local hot spots, & early failure were
to be avoided.

Then a very clever man invented the "thin wall bearing" & our modern
slipper bearings were born. It is a pity that the racing cars he had
built were not as good as his bearings. With round bearings, & the
thickness of the bearing metal now measured in microns, there is no
reason, or scope for running in.

So we are left with the valve gear, & the cylinders.

As underderdog says, with modern oils, the cam can be a problem, but
the "bedding in" process there is simple & quick.

Provided the cylinder walls are round, & straight, & no large ring
lip was left at the top of the bore, all the running in required for
rings, & pistons should be almosr finished by the time the cam is
done.

I lost count of the number of times I rebuilt racing engines, many
years ago. If you want to talk old tec engines, the Triumph TR3A
engine, that was in my Morgan +4, which did 5,000 miles racing,
would have to be close, as would most of the stuff I raced, back in
the 60s.

With all these race engines, after a rebuild, they were run very
smoothly, & gently, at about 2000RPM, until the engine oil was up to
60 deg C temperature, & then they went racing.

I used to bed new rings to the bore, with Braso metal polish, as the
chrome rings used at the time, were very hard, & took a lot of
bedding. Hepolite used to supply the compression ring, [yes only one
compression ring] with a cutting compound baked onto the rubbing
surface. As I did not like the idea of this stuff going into my oil,
I used to scrape it off, & do the braso thing.

Enjoy the pleasure of running in, your newly biult engine, if you
wish, but, if it has been done properly, it is ready to go, by the
tine the oil is hot.

Hasbeen

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Postby Cobber » 07 Mar 2009 14:39

<font face="Comic Sans MS"><font size="2">I'm with Hasbeen on this, once I've got 'em up to temp, tuned and checked for fluid levels, oil pressure, leaks etc. I give 'em a bloody good flogging and drive 'em like they're stolen!
I use the same oil as I intend to run the engine on, at about 1000 k I'll change oil & filter then go to normal oil change intervals </font id="size2"></font id="Comic Sans MS">

80'Triumph TR7, , 73'Land Rover (Ford 351. V8),
'89 Ford Fairlane
85'Alfa 90, 69'Ford F250.
76' Ford F100

Underdog
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Postby Underdog » 07 Mar 2009 14:56

Yep, Me too. As our experianced friend Hasbeen points out, race engines don't get driven easy from the get go. Way back in my drag racing days, they always ran thier best after a freshen up.

Other thing worth mentioning is to have the fuel & ignition set up properly before firing the first time. Absolute worse thing for new rings is washing down the cylinders with raw fuel.

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REPLIC8
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Postby REPLIC8 » 07 Mar 2009 18:45

Gaz,
I'd take it easy for 500 miles then change the oil & filter, then gradually increase the revs you use over the next 500 miles until you're happy to give it some real welly! I've known a couple of TR7 owners who dithered about at low revs for several thousand miles & their engines ended up sluggish & reluctant to rev out. Get it loosened up & use it![:D]

Andy
1981 UK SPEC TR8
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FI Spyder
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Postby FI Spyder » 07 Mar 2009 19:01

I would play it safe. Use brake in oil (I believe it's non detergent so it doesn't keep crap in suspension) and change oil/filter at 500 miles. During the first 1 to 2 thousand miles do not use heavy throttle but do not keep to steady revs for long periods but vary the rpm up and down periodically say between the 2 and 3 thousand rpm range. Change oil/filter. While modern metals/oil may make this less important if I'm doing my engine overhaul I'm not going to rush the procedure nor the break in regimen. Have a happy 180,000 mile journey.



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Beans
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Postby Beans » 07 Mar 2009 20:02

When I got my Sprint on the road back in 1997 I ran the engine in pretty gentle for the first 500km, using normal 20W50 oil. Changed the oil and gently upped the revs to 4000 rpm over the next 1000km.

At 1500 km the car went on the rolling road for final tune up of the carbs. Before starting with the tuning session we checked the compression of the engine. Turned out nr 2 was quite a bit lower then the other three.
After trashing the engine for a few hours while setting up the carbs we checked the compression again, guess what? All four cilinders were spot on ....


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<font color="blue"><i>1981 TR7 FHC Sprint (better known as 't Kreng)
1981 TR7 DHC (now completely dismantled)
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tom bauer
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Postby tom bauer » 08 Mar 2009 01:25

hasbeen is right on with this. even the 'old' 3500 rover motors were modern enough for this kind of treatment. i would use a breaking in oil for 500 miles and then a good grade of racing oil. my new 3.9 was run at 2500 rpm for 20 minutes and then driven and i mean really driven. the only issue to consider it mating in the cam and flat tappets. with only 60 miles on it now i consider it fully 'broken in' and it sees revs of 6000 with no worries. the clearances you assymble it with are the clearances you will be living with and the finish hone put on the cylinder walls should have been done to a very fine finish and perfectly round, so nothing is going to change with time. when we honed my engine we torqued on plate made for a V6 buick (not having one for a V8) so the block would assume the shape as if it had heads on.

tom

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