Anonymous

ZS carbys

Here’s where to discuss anything specific about your standard(ish) car or something that applies to the model in general.
Troy ODoherty
Wedge Pilot
Posts: 335
Joined: 02 Jun 2008 21:27
Location: Australia
Contact:

ZS carbys

Postby Troy ODoherty » 17 Dec 2014 09:24

I bought a DHC last week and after 3-4 minutes running fuel pours out of the bottom of the anti run on valve. It has the US spec twin canister evaporative system. Does anyone know how to by pass all of this system.otherwise it runs great.

Cheers Troy

Workshop Help
TRiffic
Posts: 1891
Joined: 27 Feb 2007 23:52
Location: Worldwide

Postby Workshop Help » 17 Dec 2014 12:29

While we sympathize with your desire to start castrating components off the car, the actual cause of your plight isn't being addressed.

Let's address it first before you drag out the meat cleaver. Your problem originates in the carburetors.

Please start your investigations by perusing my article in The Workshop Manual on removing the float bowls on your Z-S carburetors. You will not have to remove the entire carburetor from the engine, only the float bowls. After reading the article, read it again.

There, now with knowledge poured into your head, proceed to order two, (2), float needle valves and two, (2), float bowl gaskets from your favorite parts vendor. Once the parts arrive, then and only then should you venture forth to the garage to begin the repair process.

Okay, the parts are here. Start by removing the air cleaner assembly. As it is summer in your neck of the woods, have a strong fan blowing over you and the work area to ventilate the errant fuel vapors. Unplug the brown electrical wire to the alternator to minimize a fire ignition hazard, and/or disconnect the positive battery cable.

With the carburetors exposed, observe the mouth of each unit for evidence of fuel. If one is 'wet', start by removing that float bowl as noted in the articles text and photos.

With the bowl gently removed, is the fuel in the bowl very near filling the bowl? If so, either the float needle valve is deteriorated, or clogged with debris preventing the needle from fully seating, or the float level is improperly set. Also, is there a load of debris in the bottom of the float bowl? A 'Yes' answer to any of these queries will mean you've found the cause of your problem.

Next, using a 6" ruler, measure the float level distance from the bottom of the float to the edge of the body flange. The official workshop manual dictates 5/8". I use about 11/16" just to keep the fuel level a bit lower in the bowl to reduce bowl seepage.

With the float level set, remove the float and pin to access the float needle valve. After it's removal, rotate the valve several times to see if you can make the needle stick, either in the up or down position. Given the mileage and age of our cars along the inability to service the valve components, replacing the valve is the wiser option. Be sure to manipulate the new valves needle to verify it's motion is free. Install the new needle valve and recheck the float level, correcting for any variation.

Clean the float bowl and using a sheet of super fine sand paper on a piece of glass, gently grind the mounting flange of the bowl to achieve an even mounting surface. The effects of prior over torquing the six screws and heat can warp the sealing surface of the flange. Clean the bowl again to remove the sanding dust.

With the new bowl gasket, reinstall the bowl on the carburetor. Now, wasn't that fun? Let's prolong our joy by repeating the procedure on the other carburetor.

Some will say to always replace the bowl plug O-ring. Others will say, 'If it ain't leaking, leave it alone!' I will leave this issue up to your discretion.

Reconnect the brown alternator and/or the battery cable.

Finally, we inquire as to your type of fuel pump. Is it the mechanical item or is it an electric pump? If the pump is an electric one, be sure to have a fuel pressure regulator installed and the pressure setting at no more than 1-1/2 PSI. I run mine at 1 PSI. Also, at least one fuel filter needs to be placed in line between the pump and the carburetors.

I use two filters on my car. One filter is on the line twixt the gas tank and the electric fuel pump with the other before the fuel pressure regulator. I intend to keep my float bowls as free of debris as possible.

Fire up your engine! Is it leaking still? If not, sew the air cleaner assembly back in place and chug on down the yellow brick road for a prolonged test drive to seek out your next adventure of Life.

Mildred Hargis

Cobber
TRemendous
Posts: 2486
Joined: 19 Sep 2005 10:03
Location: Australia
Contact:

Postby Cobber » 17 Dec 2014 13:03

Or you can bin the bloody awful things and put on a pair of lovely SUs instead [:D]

"Keep calm, relax, focus on the problem & PULL THE BLOODY TRIGGER"

80'Triumph TR7, 73'Land Rover (Ford 351. V8),
'89 Ford Fairlane
'98 MG-F, 69'Ford F250.

Workshop Help
TRiffic
Posts: 1891
Joined: 27 Feb 2007 23:52
Location: Worldwide

Postby Workshop Help » 17 Dec 2014 13:42

Right on schedule, our handsome and ever-so-charming Cobber rushes to the rescue with pleadings for the S-U solution. Mind you, the Almighty S-U shares the same float needle design as Gawds-Own Z-S and is prone to the very same flooding phenomenon.

Mildred Hargis

FI Spyder
TRemendous
Posts: 8920
Joined: 03 Jul 2006 19:54
Location: Canada

Postby FI Spyder » 17 Dec 2014 13:58

SU's are an expensive fix for a problem of dirt. The Zenith's will work perfectly fine. Our club carburetor guy likes SU's because they are more straightforward to set up and in some ways a more elegant design but they couldn't meet the emissions standards in the States so Zenith's were used. We got the Zeniths here in Canada because what the Federal's got, we got (except for FI in '81, although it was an option). A friend who has a Spitfire put SU's on his car and got around the provincial limitation on collector plates/insurance saying no modifications by having an original dealer memo that SU's could be had as an option. I don't know if that was a case for TR7's but a case could be made, depending which side of the bed the guy in charge got out of. Removing emissions stuff won't enhance performance, it was the 8 to 1 pistons that did that (and maybe springs and weight profile in distributor).

I had the same problem as Troy with Yellow TCT, the guy I was buying the car from tried to start it but he said "gas was pouring out the fuel pump". When he pointed to the anti-run on valve I knew he didn't know what he was talking about and that the carbs needed cleaning (as well as fuel flush as the car had been sitting for four years). Explained a few things like when he sprayed hard foam into the RH well in the trunk because there was a hole there (drain hole) causing the right rear sill to rust out (behind the paint). Fortunately it only has 47,000 Km. and as second owner wouldn't have had time to screw too much else up.

- - -TR7 Spider - - - 1978 Spitfire- - - - 1976 Spitfire - - 1988 Tercel 4X4 - Kali on Integra - 1991 Integra - Yellow TCT
Image

HDRider
Swagester
Posts: 542
Joined: 23 Jun 2008 15:58
Location: USA
Contact:

Postby HDRider » 17 Dec 2014 19:00

It just means that the float valve is stuck. This often happens when the cars sit for quite a while.

Tap the carb with the handle of a screwdriver or other such semi non-destructive device and it will be fine.

Edward Hamer
Petaluma CA

Hasbeen
TRemendous
Posts: 6474
Joined: 28 Apr 2005 12:32
Location: Australia
Contact:

Postby Hasbeen » 18 Dec 2014 01:30

Not sure you're right about the reason for the switch from SU to Zenith carbs Spyder. That does sound like a cover story to me.

The story I got was a bit more commercial.

Apparently when Triumph was still an independent company, British Motor Corporation bought SU, then started charging their opposition, including Triumph exorbitant prices for the carbs.

Triumph went to Zenith looking for a better price.

I personally prefer SUs, but only due to over 50 years of experience with them.

Hasbeen

FI Spyder
TRemendous
Posts: 8920
Joined: 03 Jul 2006 19:54
Location: Canada

Postby FI Spyder » 18 Dec 2014 02:21

I read that as well but UK and I believe Europe still got the SU's. If it was just a cost issue they would have all been Zenith's. I heard MG was getting a better price on SU's than Triumph was getting so they went with Zenith but that doesn't answer why some areas got Zenith's and some got SU's.

- - -TR7 Spider - - - 1978 Spitfire- - - - 1976 Spitfire - - 1988 Tercel 4X4 - Kali on Integra - 1991 Integra - Yellow TCT
Image

Troy ODoherty
Wedge Pilot
Posts: 335
Joined: 02 Jun 2008 21:27
Location: Australia
Contact:

Postby Troy ODoherty » 24 Dec 2014 04:01

Ok I seem to of fixed the flooding issue. I followed Mildreds advise. and replaced the needles and seats. God I hate ZS carbies. If a weber manifold pops up I will get rid of the whole system. They do work ok but they are so hard to work on. 4 hrs to do something that would of taken 20 minutes on a Weber. I am most grateful for the advise on the problem. It now runs like a clock.
Next anyone know why I need to tap the speedo to get it to work?
Merry Xmas
Cheers Troy

Cheers Troy

Hasbeen
TRemendous
Posts: 6474
Joined: 28 Apr 2005 12:32
Location: Australia
Contact:

Postby Hasbeen » 24 Dec 2014 06:15

Is it all the time, or just when you first drive off Troy?

I have that trouble with my rev counter. It won't move off the stop, until I get up to about 2000 RPM. Then it starts & works mostly all day, unless I park for a few hours.

I think it is dried grease. I did clean one out & regrease it many years ago, & it was fine there after.

I have put this one on the Gunna-do list, but it is probably an idle threat.

Hasbeen

Troy ODoherty
Wedge Pilot
Posts: 335
Joined: 02 Jun 2008 21:27
Location: Australia
Contact:

Postby Troy ODoherty » 24 Dec 2014 09:05

Hi Hasbeen. Works intermittently . The Tachometer takes a couple of seconds to move after I start it then works fine. There are a few other issues in the dash so I will pull it out and change a couple of bulbs while I'm there.
Merry Xmas.

Cheers Troy

Maxwell
TRiffic
Posts: 1641
Joined: 19 Jun 2008 21:30
Location: United Kingdom
Contact:

Postby Maxwell » 24 Dec 2014 09:48

Hi Troy - A Piccie and a couple of hundred words for a forthcoming TR-Driver?

Something to pen whilst perusing the view from the veranda as the sun goes down?

Have a great Christmas; guess it won't be white but then, neither will ours!!

Maxwell [:o)]


2.0 TR7 FHC \ Current
1.8 Mazda MX5 \ Current

ugmw177
Wedgling
Posts: 12
Joined: 12 Sep 2013 13:08
Location: USA
Contact:

Postby ugmw177 » 24 Dec 2014 13:54

I fail to understand why many prefer the SUs to the ZSs. As stated earlier in this thread, the SUs also have float needles that stick and fuel flooding issues. IMHO, the ZS is a built to a higher standard and the diaphragm design ensures no vacuum leakage even as the piston/damper assy wears.
The only real reason I see to prefer the SUs is for the main jet adjustments that can be made whilst engine is at tickover. The ZS adjuster was a bodge to prevent owner tampering but really just made mixture adjustment a PITA.

Before you spend hard earned cash on webers, you should really investigate sourcing a FI from a late 7; the L-Jet based system is far superior to any carb you can put on the 7.

Workshop Help
TRiffic
Posts: 1891
Joined: 27 Feb 2007 23:52
Location: Worldwide

Postby Workshop Help » 24 Dec 2014 14:28

My dearest friend, Troy. Please peruse The Workshop Manual for my article on servicing the speedo cable. With your now warm weather, this will make a good weekend project for you.

Mildred Hargis

Cobber
TRemendous
Posts: 2486
Joined: 19 Sep 2005 10:03
Location: Australia
Contact:

Postby Cobber » 24 Dec 2014 14:32

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Century Gothic, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by ugmw177</i>


Before you spend hard earned cash on webers, you should really investigate sourcing a FI from a late 7; the L-Jet based system is far superior to any carb you can put on the 7.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I beg to differ, L-jet injection was more about emissions than power.
A pair of Weber DCOE side draft carbies, properly set up should leave a L-jet car behind in it's dust.
But for some strange reason that no one has been able to explain to me, you lot in the US don't use DCOEs you use those bloody awful down draft DGVs
Anyway as no injected TR-7s were ever sold here in Oz it would be nearly impossible to find any injection bits like manifolds here, and even if you could they'd be bloody pricey

"Keep calm, relax, focus on the problem & PULL THE BLOODY TRIGGER"

80'Triumph TR7, 73'Land Rover (Ford 351. V8),
'89 Ford Fairlane
'98 MG-F, 69'Ford F250.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 28 guests

cron