Hard Suspension

[Stag76]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Century Gothic, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">you guys (and girls) need to take a Toyota FRS/Subaru BRZ out for a run and get back to me afterwards.....
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I agree.

I've got a 1990 GT-Four Celica, which cost less than the average TR7.

Turbo power, four wheel drive, good handling, brakes, comfort etc.

Just hope I haven't got to do anything major under the bonnet, as it looks a bit like everything was poured in.

TR7 Convertible
Sprint Motor
MegaSquirt EFI

[FI Spyder]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Century Gothic, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Hasbeen</i>


I have been doing a lot of Paddock driving recently, driving in one of our old 86 Toyota Cressidas.
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My Dad had one of those. It was the car that got him out of the Ford/Chevy mindset and made him a Toyota fan. He sold it for $4500 and bought a new Camry his last car (over 300,000 km when he gave it to his grandson). I never drove the Cresida but got picked up from the ferries a few times with it.


- - -TR7 Spider - - - 1978 Spitfire- - - - 1976 Spitfire - - 1988 Tercel 4X4 - Kali on Integra - 1991 Integra - Yellow TCT

[smoking joe]

Well, did not have time myself so got local classic car garage to take a look, upon dismantle the dampers where shot, metal on metal. Thought that was the problem, replaced these and ordered new 'rubber' bump stops, but seemed to be the same as the existing ones, so refitted the extg. stops.

Still have issues with the front suspension, dampers changed and car slightly better, but I can still easily hit the bump stops. The ride height, ground to top wheel arch 600mm +/- and when pushed down 583mm +/- and hit bumps stops, can this be right ? guessing coils too soft, but if they were surely they would compress overall. Are the heights above correct do you think ?

If I go for uprated coils would the dampers need changing ?

Any wisdom well appreciated.
SJ

[dursleyman]

Seems like you are getting to the root of the problem but it also sounds like those front springs are too low and/or too hard. My choice would be a new standard rate pair from S&S or Robsport where you can talk to someone and discuss your problem. Wouldn't cost much either, just the pain in swapping them.

Russ

1980 TR7 Sprint DHC, 1981 TR7 Sprint DHC
Dursley
UK

http://tr7russ.blogspot.co.uk/

[img]http://i1040.photobucket.com/albums/b410/dursleyman/TR7%20web%20picture/IMG_0479-Optimized.jpg[img]

[Hasbeen]

Hi Joe, My 7 has exactly the same wheel arch to ground measurement, 600mm. A better measurement is center of axle to wheel arch, as tyre size or inflation not involved. Mine is 320mm

I have the original springs retempered to standard free length & spring rate, so should be standard ride height.

I have poly bump stops from a GM Holden, so don't know if they are standard length, but my 7 never bottoms on even quite poor roads, but without large pot holes.

That is all I can offer from this distance.

Hasbeen

[supercass]

Isn't it considered appropriate to reduce the height of the front bump stops as even in standard form they were considered too long. This would increase the travel and improve ride. Can anyone tell me by how much they should be shortened? supercass

[sydney.wedgehead]

I shortened the Australian made SuperPro version (SPF0189K) of the UKC1101 bump stop by cutting off the collapsible portion on the bottom of the item along the line indicated in the following picture.


From memory, this reduced the height by ~15mm, leaving the bump stop <40mm high overall. I really agonised over whether to make this cut but am glad that I did. The car only hits the stops when I have run over very deep pot holes.

You can buy these in the UK under the Super Flex brand name.


Alternatively, you could try either the Rimmers or Wedgeshop versions, each illustrated below:






Owen, aka:
- Marsu (570 posts, last dated 28 Nov 2011)
- omichaelshar (557 posts, last dated 17 Mar 2009)

[busheytrader]

[quote]<i>Originally posted by supercass</i>

Isn't it considered appropriate to reduce the height of the front bump stops as even in standard form they were considered too long. This would increase the travel and improve ride. Can anyone tell me by how much they should be shortened? supercass
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As per the Triumphtune article I posted earlier in this thread, they increased the front suspension travel to 3 inches with the uprated springs and shorter bumpstops. The standard front springs were renowned at the time for sagging with age. The standard front bumpstops fall apart with age. I have the considerably shorter Triumphtune poly bumpstops in mine but don't know the length as they're well hidden in there.

I'd have a word with the likes of S&S, they've probably seen it all over the years in their workshops. (Other Wedge specialists are available)

Adam

[nick]

My '76 car felt like the fenders were going to come off each time I hit a mild bump in the road. With new shocks installed, I felt it had to be springs. I replaced them with with a set that is standard with the AC equipped cars. It raised the front by about 3/4 which was too low. It reduced the camber and improved straight ahead tracking. Additionally it takes the bumps much better.

[img][IMG]http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt234/nickmi/TR7%201975/Yellow.jpg[/img]
nick
'79 TR7 DHC
'76 TR7 FHC

[rgsSpider]

This is sounding an awful lot like the problem I was having. I could put my weight on the front fender and would get a small bit of travel before I would hear a clunk. When driving it felt like there were 2x4s up front top rather than springs. I had purchased brand new standard springs from Rimmers, this shouldn't be happening! I showed the pics to some of the suspension pros on here and they informed me they springs were not correct. But yet I did order the correct part from Rimmers, and I did get the part I ordered! This is the spring from Rimmers installed.



See how squished it is! I had my mechanic watch as I put my weight on the fender, that clunk I was hearing was the spring fully compressing! So, we found a pair of original springs from his junk cars and put them on. See the difference?!



What a massive difference! It feels like a brand new car, even with 34 year old springs!

Randy

1980 TR7 <font color="red">Spider!</font id="red">
http://rgstr7spider.tumblr.com/

[sydney.wedgehead]

That first shot looks like one too many coils to me.

Interesting that it's painted black as other TR7 springs I've seen from Rimmers have all been painted red.

Here's a shot of a "200lb 1 inch lowered" spring from a local manufacturer, which has one less coil than the 1st above:



Owen, aka:
- Marsu (570 posts, last dated 28 Nov 2011)
- omichaelshar (557 posts, last dated 17 Mar 2009)

[smoking joe]

Well finally got around to investigating further. Got hold of some good second hand coils, which clearly have less coils in, hence more vert. room to move, should have smoother ride !!!

Well, getting there, done one side and I would say vert. travel 3 times more, but when parked I can still push up and down without too much effort to hit what now seems clear, the bump stops.

My question is, my mechanic friend helping says we should cut down the std. Rimmer bump stops, I have found on the forum some guys have cut down poly ones with uprated suspension, but how much should we cut off my std. nearly new rimmers ones ?

About half, down to the narrowing neck or just say 20mm.

Help appreciated.

SJ

[Cobber]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Century Gothic, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by smoking joe</i>
[br Got hold of some good second hand coils, which clearly have less coils in, hence more vert. room to move, should have smoother ride !!!
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You need to understand how coil springs actually work.
When a coil spring is compressed or stretched it actually twists the wire/rod of the spring.

They are essentially a helically wound torsion bar the shorter the length of the torsion bar of a given diameter the stiffer it will be.
So a coil spring of the same wire/rod diameter with less turns for the same spring height will be stiffer.
Now, unless your original springs with the more coils were suffering spring bind when in compression (The state when the spring coils actually hit each other during compression, and effectively bottom out.) they should be softer springs providing they are made of the same size wire/rod.

Now we come to variable rate springs, these have both tightly and loosely wound sections of the same spring, this treatment has the softer part of the spring doing most of the work on small bumps the on the bigger bumps the softer sections bind and the harder part of the spring comes into play.

And to answer you question regarding cutting the bump stops down:
This is a common modification to gain a little more suspension travel.


"Keep calm, relax, focus on the problem & PULL THE BLOODY TRIGGER"

80'Triumph TR7, 73'Land Rover (Ford 351. V8),
'89 Ford Fairlane
'98 MG-F, 69'Ford F250.

[smoking joe]

Thanks Cobber, but the springs were clearly suffering from spring bind, with 4.5mm gap at top and 8.5mm at bottom,when compressed they closed up.

This was far less gap than the 3 other 7's that I have recently looked at, could get my fingers in between those.

SJ

[smoking joe]

Well been and done it !
Cut 12mm off top and bottom of the Rimmer bump stops and
with the change in coils a completely different car.

Steering felt incredibly light whilst reversing up the drive, thought something was wrong, but no, the roller strut top bearings I had installed a few months ago seem to have woken up.

When driving normally,fantastic light steering and only a little harder when at parking speed etc.

Can only think that the longer bump stops were being loaded, hence the so direct solid thump or at least binding some how.

Almost feels like a modern car now, really pleased, I just wanted to get everything sorted as standard before thinking about upgrades, maybe next year.

SJ