Hard Suspension

bmcecosse · Postby **bmcecosse** » 26 Apr 2014 17:26

Front suspension travel is only 1" ??? Surely much more than that ?? My suspension is very smooth, soaks up bumps and undulations but no sign of 'bounce', and the dampers were fine when I had the suspension in bits to renew the top collar bearing. I advise AGAINST fitting top roller bearing - I've heard it makes the steering far too light - my steering is perfectly acceptable (on 195 X 60 X 15 tyres) - I just lathered the swivel bearing in moly grease. Are you sure your tyres are not over inflated?

moodyblue · Postby **moodyblue** » 28 Apr 2014 21:10

I binned the strut roller bearings 1000 miles after the rebuild, they raised the nose of the wedge, it was horrible and sometimes scary to drive on the open road.[}:)] Probably fine if you don't drive over 50mph on smooth roads. I can't comment on the needle bearings, they won't raise the height as they're thinner and perhaps they give better feedback. Either way there would be no rubber seal to protect the bearing.

saabfast · Postby **saabfast** » 29 Apr 2014 10:01

I have ball type top bearings on my struts, fitted when i last rebuilt them about 8 years ago. They were from S&S and have a rubber seal around them. I have just rebuilt the struts (twice, once to replace the bump stops and gaiters and then again as one damper went loose when putting the strut back on). The bearings were OK but the grease had gone hard so i cleaned them out and repacked with MS grease.

They are only about 4mm high so I can't imagine they would raise the front significantly (the plastic washers they replace are 2-3mm thick).

Alan
Saab 9000 Stg 1 (now passed to son for his family car)
Saab 9000 2.3 FPT Auto (now gone that others might live)
Saab 9000 2.3 LPT Auto (sold on, wish I had it back)
Saab 9-5 2.3 Vector Auto Estate
'81 TR7 DHC

Ianftr8 · Postby **Ianftr8** » 29 Apr 2014 15:40

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by moodyblue

I binned the strut roller bearings 1000 miles after the rebuild, they raised the nose of the wedge, it was horrible and sometimes scary to drive on the open road.[}:)] Probably fine if you don't drive over 50mph on smooth roads. I can't comment on the needle bearings, they won't raise the height as they're thinner and perhaps they give better feedback. Either way there would be no rubber seal to protect the bearing.
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You could always turn out a few MM from the aluminium cone that sits on top of the Ford Sierra type bearings that are commonly used.I think it was Odd that sent me the dims (will have to see if I can find his drawing)

Cheers

Ian

Ian Freeman
1979 TR8 DHC KDU 315V Poseidon Green USA car that never crossed the pond.
Triumph Courier
Triumph owner for 32 years

moodyblue · Postby **moodyblue** » 29 Apr 2014 20:52

I could have machined them but I found the original set up far better. It wasn't the height change that bothered me, it was how the car handled. There is no way I wanted to strip the struts after the rebuild, but it was that bad I hated driving it. A few people tried it and they all said the steering was way too light, even dangerous. Anyway, some people might like it that way, but I can't see why, I suppose it depends on where and how you drive your wedge. I've tried and tested a number of so called upgrades and I'm finding that, for most components, original is best.

Hasbeen · Postby **Hasbeen** » 29 Apr 2014 23:32

I know exactly what you are talking about moodyblue.

My 7 has well greased strut top set up, a good condition & well greased steering rack, & the new Kumho tyres recently fitted, & is just right for enthusiastic driving, or for waffling down a nice country road, or around town.

It was always better than the latest crop of front drive hatches & their overpowered electric steering, but with some aging Pirelli tyres, [7 years old, 5 on a car], on it, was a bit heavy at parking speeds on good bitumen. These new tyres may be no better than the Pirellis were when new, but they are a huge improvement at low speeds, over them at 7 years old.

My only complaint about my S2000 is the steering. Too light, too direct, & no feel. If Honda had got that as good as the rest it would be the best car I have driven. They didn't & the 7 still holds that honor.

Hasbeen

FI Spyder · Postby **FI Spyder** » 30 Apr 2014 01:59

All personal preference. Like Hasbeen, can't stand the no feel of modern cars, right up to and including my sister's Mazda3. I'm glad I got the needle bearings in my car, it seems to be lighter this year (third time over the last 7 years it's got it's shots of grease). They sure come in handy in a parking lot with the 13" TR8 steering wheel that come with a Spider or 30th Anniversary edition.

- - -TR7 Spider - - - 1978 Spitfire- - - - 1976 Spitfire - - 1988 Tercel 4X4 - Kali on Integra - 1991 Integra - Yellow TCT

moodyblue · Postby **moodyblue** » 30 Apr 2014 17:41

Yes, some minor mods, such as tyres, along with good lubrication is the key.

silverseven · Postby **silverseven** » 01 May 2014 00:29

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by FI Spyder

All personal preference. Like Hasbeen, can't stand the no feel of modern cars, right up to and including my sister's Mazda3. I'm glad I got the needle bearings in my car, it seems to be lighter this year (third time over the last 7 years it's got it's shots of grease). They sure come in handy in a parking lot with the 13" TR8 steering wheel that come with a Spider or 30th Anniversary edition.

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not me!

YOU WILL BE 100% certain I will bin the damn things next suspension overhaul! I found 0 improvement, and if anything too sensitive since the install .....

On an offtopic note , personally I love the way most new cars drive even if they are a little too sensitive with all the electronic steering enhancements. Cars from all the manufactures have come a long way in even just 20 years , there's hardly a car on the market right now that could be considered a lemon , and most of it is thanks to technology that they build into them. I'd bet even the most mundane GM subcompact here at the shop would run circles around a TR7 on the skid pad and probably out accelerate it as well.

Ron.

Hasbeen · Postby **Hasbeen** » 01 May 2014 04:19

Ron, have you driven the latest Ford Fiesta?

I don't drive many new cars these days, particularly small ones. Apart from some largish utes/pickups, & largish 4WD wagons, I have not found one I would put in my garage.

I have been unfortunate enough recently, to have to make a few trips to the airport, [about 70 kilometer each way] in my ladies new Fiesta, when passenger numbers were too high for my cars.

The steering, & the fly by wire throttle I have concluded, are implements of the devil.

The ergonomics are so bad that my right knee, & left hand are aching even before I get to the airport. How Ford can make the thing so bad, I really don't know. Her last car, a Mazda 2, on the same floor pan, although not something one would really want, was quite a reasonable shopping trolley.

Never having driven a front drive thing on a skid pan, I have no idea what they are, or would be like there. However the way they want to charge off the road, whenever they hit a bit of standing water makes me wonder about that.

Your suggestion has whetted my curiosity, & I will look for a chance to try one on a pan. It is something I would not have thought to try, without your suggestion. Thank you.

Hasbeen

claypole1360 · Postby **claypole1360** » 01 May 2014 05:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by silverseven

[quote]Originally posted by FI Spyder

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Cars from all the manufactures have come a long way in even just 20 years ,

Ron.

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Twenty years ago there were some lemons it's true, but there is an argument that progress has numbed the feel of the driving experience a little.
Added weight from safety equipment and the electrification of most components have disattached us from our vehicles.
When I feel the immediacy of the steering and the accelerator in my 89 Peugeot 205 and that said, in my 7v8, it is thrilling.
My modern VW Passat is about as disattached an experience as you could wish for, not always a bad thing, but I never drive that car to enjoy driving, just to gobble up the miles in comfort.
Is it progress? If ever my family is unfortunate enough to have an accident in the Passat, I will probably argue that it is, but for enjoyment, give me carbs, direct unassisted rack and pinion in a light car anyday.

1978 TR7V8 FHC
1962 Herald Coupe 1200
1989 Peugeot 205 xs
2003 Peugeot 206 GTI
2009 VW Passat

Workshop Help · Postby **Workshop Help** » 01 May 2014 12:58

As long as we are so far off topic here is my take on this new versus old. Having completed the resurrection of my nieces 1998 BMW 318i, I have been driving it for the past couple of weeks. Granted it is 16 years old, but the refinement is palpable compared to our old clanks. Quiet, power steering, air conditioning, an engine that willingly revs, all these things provide a pleasant ride going from hither to yon.

Until today when I took the TR7 in for it's inspection sticker. Once the various joints loosened up as the engine and gearbox warmed up, that old relaxing feel of being at home with an old friend again came thru. Having often used this TR7 as a long distance car, I am here to testify this rig and me stand ready and willing for the next foray into adventure.

Mildred Hargis

FI Spyder · Postby **FI Spyder** » 01 May 2014 13:57

I don't know about you guys but my cars talk to me. My '88 Tercel (first model year was '85 so technology is early '80's, the coupe had the beginnings of technology with three valves per piston but the station wagon is old school) says "I'm no sports car, I have a high centre of gravity so you better drive me like a little old lady or you'll be sorry".

The '91 Integra had a foot in both camps. Variable assist power steering, 16 valves, dual over head cams, four wheel discs, has the feel of a modern car and effortless long distance cruising but when push comes to shove, there's just enough feedback and it just hunkers down and gets the job done.

The Spider has that direct connection, Seems to take the curves on it's own and says it can handle much more. When you listen to it and give it what it wants it says "OK, I've done my part, now it's up to the tires and pavement and here's what they're saying, there's a little grit on the road and I'm going to have a little side slip here but so long as the grit doesn't increase or the radius tighten, we're good to stay in our lane."

Modern cars however has that disconnect be it a Subaru Outback or a sports coupe. Press lightly on the gas and it says to itself "OK, we have a go command here, what's our options? Just one. Full speed ahead to simulate more power than we really have, the driver will never know the difference". When turning the steering wheel it's "OK. we have a turn command, how much? No idea, just keep turning the wheel till something else comes on down the line".

Now you might think these conversations would translate into a really good race driver but it only happens when driving for fun, in competition the red mist descends and I hear nothing at all so it's not going to happen.

- - -TR7 Spider - - - 1978 Spitfire- - - - 1976 Spitfire - - 1988 Tercel 4X4 - Kali on Integra - 1991 Integra - Yellow TCT

silverseven · Postby **silverseven** » 02 May 2014 00:01

you guys (and girls) need to take a Toyota FRS/Subaru BRZ out for a run and get back to me afterwards.....

Ron.

Hasbeen · Postby **Hasbeen** » 02 May 2014 05:01

I did mate.

It wasn't a patch on my 13 year old Honda S2000. To start with the roof is too hard to put down. [:D]

Granted the steering has marginally better weight than the S, & just a little more feedback, but otherwise it is inferior in every way. The turn in, & the handling left a lot to be desired

I have already stated the 7 is a better touring car than the S, so the Toyota/Subaru hero car just doesn't make the grade with me.

Apart from a dislike of the characteristics of modern hatch type front drive cars, I find the latest electric power steering is tiring to drive. I find 2 hands necessary to balance each other with the too light too direct stuff in favor today. You can't just rest one hand on the wheel, & let the car run.

Perhaps it's a factor of when & with what, we developed our unconscious driving techniques.

I have been doing a lot of Paddock driving recently, driving in one of our old 86 Toyota Cressidas. It was retired to paddock duties a few years back, & not used much even for that. I had forgotten what a great old thing it was to drive.

I have a daughter getting married next year, who wants a garden party in the bottom paddock, down by the river. I now have to turn an ex Lucerne, [Alfalfa], grazing paddock, into a garden party venue. That is half a mile from the house, so the old Cressida will be getting plenty of work.

Hasbeen

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Hard Suspension

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