Loooking for fuel injection opinion

[sheetsofsound]

I have a car with fuel injection that doesn't run. (Previous owner said it overheated and seized.) I have a second car with Z-S carburetors that runs, although I am in a constant battle with the emissions testing station here to get it roadworthy.

I read Roger Williams singing the praises of FI over carburetors in "How to Restore...". Most other stuff I have read says you get better performance from carbs.

Until I read the Roger Williams piece, I hadn't considered moving the FI system to my running car. Is this a good idea from a performance perspective? Would it make any difference to my emissions testing woes? Any opinions would be welcome.

[TR Tony]

The EFI was designed to meet increasingly stringent emmissions regulations back in the day, so from that point of view I would expect that it would solve your problems with your local testing station.

EFI was not really there to increase performance, but I have heard the the 2L car runs more smoothly & gives better fuel comsumption - it will be at least as good as the carb car from a performance point of view.

There is a lot of stuff to change over! Fuel tank, fuel pump & lines, wiring loom, injection manifold & related parts, air intake & flow meter, exhaust manifold with Lambda sensor, probably other bits I can't think of off the top of my head. Still, you have all the parts so it's just your time ...[:)]

Tony

<font size="1">1981 TR7 FHC Cavalry Blue
1980 TR7V8 DHC Jaguar Regency Red - sadly sold!
1977 TR8 FHC EFI Factory development car Inca Yellow</font id="size1">

[Hasbeen]

If you have a good carb fuel tank, you can use that quite happily, & less expensively, with a swirl tank to pump from, & return to.

Hasbeen

[jeffremj]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Century Gothic, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by sheetsofsound</i>

I have a car with fuel injection that doesn't run. (Previous owner said it overheated and seized.) I have a second car with Z-S carburetors that runs, although I am in a constant battle with the emissions testing station here to get it roadworthy. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I would mend the EFI car as you might move all the EFI kit over an have no running cars.

[sheetsofsound]

It was dealing with the fuel tank that gave me the biggest pause; a swirl tank a great idea. Location? Anyone done this?

I hadn't thought too much about the electrical side of things. If the whole engine loom needs to be changed, that would not be fun.

[Workshop Help]

Well, yeah, but. First off, the 1981 fuel injected cars did have much better fuel economy at highway speeds. But, this was due to the altered fifth gear in the LT77 gearbox AND the vastly altered differential gearing change. The fuel injection system was marginally more effective in providing a consistent fuel/air mixture.

As to the conversion from the Z-S carburetors to the fuel injection, the above post is correct in the amount of work involved in the swap. Also, there is a whole bunch of wiring harness in this chore, as well.
I would tend toward resurrecting the fuel injected car on it's own.

As for the Z-S car, it's carburetors are intended for meeting the then standards of emissions levels. I suggest you set aside a long Saturday to drop the float bowls, replace the needle valves, reset the float levels, then balance the idle air flow, synchronization, and mixtures.

Would it be correct to assume the test results are showing a too rich mixture in the exhaust? It is also a good idea to install new spark plugs and ignition cables to eliminate any misfire condition.

There is on the auto parts store shelf bottles of a snake oil juice that's supposed to make the car pass any exhaust sniffer test by pouring the bottle in the gas tank. If it works, I'd be very surprised.

Please use the SEARCH function at the top right of your screen to find my articles on carburetor adjusting.

Mildred Hargis

[DNK]

If you are interested in the FI
I would look for an aftermarket.
You can do as mine with minimal sensors to a full OBDII system

Don
Stick a Wedge In It
80 TR7 V8 Kick in the pants

[Hasbeen]

We did one in the 8.

It already had an electric pump on the bulkhead in front of the tank, by the pickup. The battery was also in the boot, on the passengers side.

The fuel was plumed into the boot, under the filler hose inspection cover. We fitted the swirl tank & pump there to keep it away from the battery.

Not all that cheap, but a fuel tank from the UK costs $600 in Oz, & made to order even more. There are a number of suppliers offering alloy swirl tanks off the shelf, it was just a matter of picking the most suitable for the mounting site.

Hasbeen

[FI Spyder]

Not all FI cars had the 3.45 differentials. I've read that the FI Spiders have the 3.90 diff as does mine (although I would have like the 3.45). |I don't know if other FI cars had the 3.9. With the 3.9 I get 36 mpg (imperial) and 40 mpg if I hold it to 50 mph (like on slower roads). FI is preferable as you just drive and go never worrying about carb adjustments, air leaks in the rubber mounts, etc. as well as the reliability. Other parts to move over are the instrument panel as it has the oxygen sensor light and the oxygen sensor switch in line with the speedo cables. It's fairly straight forward moving the gas tank but as you have to take it out anyway and considering it is no longer available I would seal it with the POR-15 sealer kit but you do have to weld a bung in the corner of the tank as the holes are not the low point of the tank and you have to drain all the excess out of the tank or it won't seal. Slideshow to my doing it.

http://s119.photobucket.com/user/Spit999/slideshow/TR7/Sealing%20Gas%20Tank

I can appreciate your dilemma of having to pass emissions (normally with an old car) but carbs can pass (with a few tricks) What is the condition of the two cars? The other option not mentioned is moving the carbed engine into the FI car where you just have to drop the carbs and intake, fuel pump, exhaust manifold.

Any solution, other than getting your carbs tunes right, will mean a fair amount of work.

- - -TR7 Spider - - - 1978 Spitfire- - - - 1976 Spitfire - - 1988 Tercel 4X4 - Kali on Integra - 1991 Integra - Yellow TCT

[HDRider]

My 1981 FI DHC has a 3.08 rear axle. It gets about 30 MPG (US gal) quite reguarly.

I found that on the carbed cars the biggest problem in getting SMOG'ed is sealing all the air leaks. I have had to replace all the old rubber hoses, add gaskets the the rubber carb mounts, replace the vacuum tubes, and place the seals in the oil filler cap and dip stick.

Once that was done I had to replace all the incorrect gaskets in the carbs and reset every adjustment. Not of this is the cars fault, it was all DPO.

After all that was done and I got the carbs properly set it SMOG'ed quite well.

Edward Hamer
Petaluma CA

[Hasbeen]

Come on Spyder, how are we going to impress the neighbors, if they don't see us out by the car, engine running, hose in ear, head slightly on one side, doing the impossible, tuning our twin carb set up.

People today are in awe of anyone who can tune a carb, let alone twin carbs. Injection tuners are a dime a dozen.

Hasbeen

[FI Spyder]

So true and I sometimes feel like I'm not really "a British car driver". But I hope to correct all that with Yellow TCT.[:p]



- - -TR7 Spider - - - 1978 Spitfire- - - - 1976 Spitfire - - 1988 Tercel 4X4 - Kali on Integra - 1991 Integra - Yellow TCT

[sheetsofsound]

Ok. I think swapping in the FI system sounds like more than I want to do at this point. Thanks for the input.

Mildred: Thank you; I have read your posts many times and found them exceedingly helpful. Using the info from your posts as well as a guide from Buckeye Triumph I have cleaned and rebuilt the carbs, adjusted float levels, replaced every gasket, and worked through instructions on adjustment, etc. This is not the first set of carbs I have rebuilt and adjusted.

Although this has strayed from the original thread topic, my frustration with the carburetors stems from the previous owner having removed the smog canister and all the relevant engine breathing equipment. I was in the process of trying to get my hands on a replacement canister and hook the system back up again in the hope that it would bring down my CO and hydrocarbon levels when I looked over at the other car in my garage and wondered about switching to FI. My mechanic friend seems to think that hooking all that stuff up again won't make much difference to the output at the tailpipe.

I don't understand how the engine breathing system affects the CO and hydrocarbon output, if at all. Plus, getting my hands on that stuff has not been easy, although I'm sure I can substitute some stuff. Can anyone enlighten me? Will putting the engine breathing system back together change the tailpipe output?

[FI Spyder]

There are various tricks you can use like having it idle slightly fast (turn it down after test), run it slightly lean (turn it back up after test).

Fortunately across the water on Vancouver Island we don't have the smog testing stuff (it just blows east into Bellingham WA.[:p]). Have you investigated to see if getting ICBC Collector Plates will exempt you from smog tests in New Westminster? You would have to get it back to stock though and no driving to work or school and have another primary vehicle insured.

The mechanic is right in that the carbon cannister stuff is just to burn the crankcase fumes and the fumes accumulated in the carbon cannisters from the gas tank. Nothing to do with the tail pipe stuff (except make it wore). How about the air pump and the one way valve? That will affect the tailpipe.

FI is the cat's meow though, pulled the pugs after 14,000 miles and they were as clean as a whistle and the tail pipe has no deposits, also clean as a whistle.





- - -TR7 Spider - - - 1978 Spitfire- - - - 1976 Spitfire - - 1988 Tercel 4X4 - Kali on Integra - 1991 Integra - Yellow TCT

[Workshop Help]

The BIGGEST disadvantage of online problem solving is not being able to actually see, hear, smell, touch, or otherwise physically experience the problem in question. Then there's that always delightful lack of knowledge of the history behind the problem. Finally, one never gets the whole story all up front.

One can only opine based on what one has out in the machine shed, not half way around the globe, or even next door.

With that diatribe out of the way, I perceive your inspector is objecting to the lack of emissions equipment !!!AND!!! the exhaust output levels, is this about right?

If so, replacement of items like the charcoal canister, EGR valve, and air pump may be found at a junk yard, if you're lucky. Otherwise, your fingers will be walking thru the expensive pages of our prairie pals in Lenexa, KS. For your sake, I hope not.

Just for fun, what year is your car? Some photos of your engine would also be nice.

Mildred Hargis