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Transmission Gearbox Filling advice and Oil Type

Here’s where to discuss anything specific about your standard(ish) car or something that applies to the model in general.
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darrellw
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Postby darrellw » 11 Jan 2014 13:13

Hi Sean,

GM or Pennzoil Synchromesh is a popular choice:

http://www.amazon.com/Synchromesh-Manua ... syncromesh

If I was going to use a Redline product, I would look at their MTL, which is spec'ed for similar characteristics as the synchromesh.

Darrell Walker
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FI Spyder
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Postby FI Spyder » 11 Jan 2014 13:28

While Redline might work there is a problem. It's expensive and the LT77 transmission should be drained periodically to get rid of transmission swarf to keep it away from the interior oil pump. A synthetic oil will not necessarily work better than regular. I thought that and I installed Pennzoil synthetic thinking it would be better than regular. It was better than the stuff that was in there from California but still sluggish into second when cold. I changed to the Pennzoil synchromesh that was suggested and it's much better, almost like new.

Different syncros in different transmission require different slipperiness in their oils so those that are fussy (like ours) you need the specific oil that works best. In our case it's the Pennzoil Synchromesh MTF or it's GM equivalent. If your synceos are (like) new you have a wider choice in what to use.

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Postby stevie_a » 11 Jan 2014 14:09

<font color="teal"><b>I thought that the TR7 gearbox oil had to be filled with auto box fluid

I have never done it, or am I thinking of another car...[:o)]</b></font id="teal">

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busheytrader
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Postby busheytrader » 11 Jan 2014 14:43

ATF was the factory's solution to the stiff gearchange from cold in to second that the LT77 box suffered from with the original spec oil. The gearbox didn't last as long with ATF fluid but by that time it was well out of warranty.

I changed to ATF when I couldn't get hold of the original spec oil any more. The gearchange was slicker, the gearbox became noisy. I changed to a synthetic MTF, the same one used in modern Minis on the recomendation of our learned friend John. Its the same spec as the Penzoil stuff used by the guys on the other side of the pond. The change is good from cold, the box is quiet and it's propely protected. Filling it with ATF and emptying it out 200 miles later effectively flushed it out. There was very little crud in what came out.

The search function on the forum will bring up plenty of threads on which MTF to use and why ATF shouldn't.

Hope this helps,


Adam



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Workshop Help
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Postby Workshop Help » 11 Jan 2014 18:12

Here in the Southern Plains, using ATF is not the best stuff for a long term gearbox fluid in the LT77. If your LT77 is freshly overhauled, do use it for the first 1500 miles that are driven easily without any over revving or maniacal speed shifting. This is because the ATF is a thinner oil with a lot of detergent in it. At 1500 miles, flush out the gearbox and refill with 1 1/2 quarts of the Penzoil MTF available most anywhere for about $10.00/bottle.

The ATF will drain out quite dirty with a load of fresh swarf due to the mating in process of the new bearings and the new wear patterns on the gears. Plan on changing the gearbox oil at the same time as the engine oil to maximize the service life of the transmission.

Yes, we all know the factory manuals say absolutely nothing about gearbox oil changes. But, we have leaned better, haven't we, boys? By the way, ATF is the factory recommendation for BMW's Getrag gearboxes as they use tighter design tolerances and it is a newer design than the LT77 which dates back to the 1940's Jaguar four speed.

On an environmental note, being located in the hotter region of the U.S. presents interesting driving challenges centered around heat. I suggest you flush your cooling system soon and strongly consider having the radiator core rodded to remove any water flow blockages.

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Postby TR Tony » 12 Jan 2014 11:31

Thought you guys might like to read this.

At the NEC Classic Car show here in the Uk back in 2012 I got talking to a man called Mike Smith who had worked at Leyland Tramsmissions for 28 years developing the LT77 & the later R380 boxes. He later emailed me with these comments:

<font color="blue">When I was at Landrover developing the LT77 and the R380 unit we assessed various oils to give good gear and bearing life and smooth synchro performance. Together with Texaco we came up with the MTF94 as the best all rounder. I do remember assessing an Elf transmission oil that was also very good, so perhaps if you have the time and are still striving for more improvements you could try Elf.
I do not recognise any of the oils you mention in your list, so I cannot help you there, but of course there are many many influences on synchro performance, ie inertia of the clutch plate, design of the synchromesh system, coefficient of friction of the components, and sometimes the spec of the oil was an immediate no no to work with the design, so we never tried it. Dont forget that an arduous rig test which really proved the longevity of all components was carried out before we would recommend an oil for production, so I am sure you will find some advantage using the Texaco product.
Yes we did try ATF oil and it was good, but we favoured it only because it was able to run at a much higher temperature,and still maintain its viscosity and qualities. It also gave less resistance to the components which as you can appreciate these days is very important to fuel consumption, etc, etc.
The gearbox oil especially the Texaco products were designed for lifetime running, but like yourself I would change my transmission oil before that.
Unfortunately I seem to have forgotten a lot of info , but I worked at Landrover on manual gearboxes and transfer gearboxes for 28 years and travelled the world testing and destroying transmissions which was a great job.</font id="blue">

I think the Texaco MTF94 is now out of production, but it was interesting to talk with someone who was so deeply involved in the development side at Leyland & Landrover.

I use Motul Gear 300 in my TR8 box, it's very good & was the recommendation of the late Ken Tomlinson who built the boxes for BL Motorsport. In my TR7 I have Castrol SMX which is also very good, in fact the Castrol is a little better from cold in reducing the baulkiness from 1st to 2nd.

Of course we are talking about what is available here in the UK so in the States other brands may be just as good & more easy to find.


Tony
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Postby John Wood » 12 Jan 2014 11:45

Unbelievable...............Mike phoned me last night. Tony, did he offer to get you some oil? If he did, ring me when your free.

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Postby Hasbeen » 12 Jan 2014 12:01

I don't know what was in the box of my current 7 when I bought it, but it was bloody awful. Even in our climate it baulked the second gear change.

Over 65,000Km ago, with the odometer at just over 100,000Km, I flushed the garbage out, & filled the thing with ATF, dexron 3, as recommended by our local Triumph guru. So far the box has not fallen out.

Every now & then I read one of these threads, & decide I ought to upgrade to one of these modern oils, to help the old box.

But then I see the 4.6L 330BHP 8, with it's ZF transmission, full of Dexron 3 ATF, & think if that stuff can lubricate that thing, driven by my son, shoving over 300 BHP through it, quite firmly usually, it can probably lubricate my thing, with it's huge 105 BHP occasionally gently applied by my delicate foot.

Next time I change the gearbox oil, I will again have this same argument with myself, probably inconclusively as usual. Until then I will still be able to tell how much of the oil in the drip trays under the 7 came from the engine, & how much from the gearbox by it's colour as much as it's position under the car.

Hasbeen

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Postby Beans » 12 Jan 2014 12:02

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Century Gothic, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by TR Tony</i>

... In my TR7 I have Castrol SMX which is also very good ...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Can only agree there, but ... Castrol SMX-S is no longer available over here.
It was replaced by Castrol Syntrans 75W90 which I now use.

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moodyblue
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Postby moodyblue » 12 Jan 2014 13:51

I've used Comma for years without a problem. Rimmer Bros. also sell it for the 5 speed gearboxes.
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Hasbeen
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Postby Hasbeen » 04 Feb 2014 02:37

Well you lot & my son, have finally got me to move, after just 12 years.

While home for a few days he reckoned he could hear a bit of a whine from the box, or the diff. One of the advantages of being old & a bit clapped out, is you can be blissfully unaware of small things like a gearbox whine. This doesn't mean you should ignore any advice that you have one.

This triggered a new search for a replacement gearbox oil. I'm sure the diff is fine, having checked it out not many miles back.

After a bit of mucking about I decided on going to Penrite Trans Gear 75W80, a semisynthetic. Even the local guru, who first got me onto ATF approved.

So in it went. It is 5 years, but only 30,000 Kilometers since the box oil was last changed, & the small amount of swarf on the magnetic drain plug was as expected.

As the box was still warm from 50 Kilometers before the change, today was the first drive from cold since the change.

I guess some of our north American people are now laughing hysterically at me calling it cold. Sorry fellers, we do sympathies when we see your problems with your polar vortex on our news. Last night it got all the way down to 22C here, about 70F, but that is the best I can do.

The thing is changing very nicely, a bit more precise on all shifts, as if the thicker oil has removed some of the slop in the system, but no sign of baulking. I can't hear any less whine, as I couldn't hear one before, but it may be quieter.

So far so good, hope it stays that way come winter.

Hasbeen

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Postby Cobber » 04 Feb 2014 03:24

Penrite is bloody good stuff, an Aussie company and I believe available in the UK and US. All you, Johnie foreigners should get on to it! [:D]


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Postby Stag76 » 04 Feb 2014 04:46

ATF has the added advantage that it doesn't rot the rubber gearbox mounting when it leaks out.

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Hasbeen
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Postby Hasbeen » 04 Feb 2014 04:55

So that's why my rear mount has lasted so well.

I've cleaned my drip trays, so I will see exactly how much the new stuff leaks.

Hasbeen

dursleyman
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Postby dursleyman » 04 Feb 2014 23:25

Amazing how often this question comes up. I read all the old stuff and went over to the GM Manual Transmission Fluid which I could get in the UK and its working well. I could not get the Pennzoil here at the time.

Seems there are two types of the GM just to confuse things even more, but the one you want is part no.12345349. Apparently there is a newer version for more modern boxes which is not so good in our LT77?

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