Big HP - tranny, axle & engine swap???

300bhpton · Postby **300bhpton** » 20 Oct 2009 07:20

Thinking of more hp and was wondering what setups some of you other guys were running. Hopefully some of you UK based ones but info/ideas welcome.

My concerns are the limitations of the Rover gearboxes (LT77 and R380), the axle (although I don't know how cheap it is to beef it up) and the aging Rover V8.

Don't get me wrong, I love my TR7 and the RV8. But it's time to move on. There are a lot of reason's why getting rid of the TR would make perfect sense, but a part of me just doesn't want to let go, so I'm looking fo reasons to keep it.

So looking to see what others have done an get a few ideas really. Things that have crossed mind is an LS1 and T56 swap maybe running a GM 10 bolt axle. No idea how big a job this would be though.

I also like the idea of using the Jaguar AJV8 DOHC engine but don't know if anyone has managed to get them to run with manual tranny yet.

Cheers.

richards · Postby **richards** » 20 Oct 2009 07:42

There are a number of people running the Supra manual box that is almost indestructable and the engine bay is big enough to fit almost anything, I read a press revue of a jag v12 powered tr7! A cheep rear axle set up that will take 500ish horses without trouble is the Volvo 240 one using a 960 turbo LSD but it would have to be modified to fit properly. The only real limitation is your imagination and budget. (Godzilla in a tr7??????)

Get a lifestyle
Get a TR7!

www.ttr7.co.uk

PeterTR7V8 · Postby **PeterTR7V8** » 20 Oct 2009 09:47

Do you want to drive the car or fly it? You can develop 700HP from a 5.7L Rover V8 so is it power or a project you are looking for?

Never say die. At least not while you're still breathing.

300bhpton · Postby **300bhpton** » 20 Oct 2009 10:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by PeterTR7V8

Do you want to drive the car or fly it? You can develop 700HP from a 5.7L Rover V8 so is it power or a project you are looking for?

Never say die. At least not while you're still breathing.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Its a bit of both. But as a while package.

Not heard of many people running the rv8 at 5.7 litres also would hate to think of the cost of getting 700hp from it.

As per my other post my makes circa 200-220hp as is. It doesn't go bad but it's never really performed quite how I've wanted it too. I've also bust a fair share of Rover/BL diffs, axles and gearboxes in the past on various machines.

I know a sensible option would be to get a used 4.6 from a p38 Rangie, slap some heads on it, a silly cam and megasquirt it. It should just drop straight in. But will it really deliver what I want? Realistically it'll only be making 280 maybe 300'ish HP. And offer everything else similar to my current 3.5. The there's the question of axle, diff and gearbox. Will it just be a time bomb?

Not too mention by the time I've done this it probably wot be anywhere near as cheap as it first sounded. Circa Â£1k for the engine, Â£800+ for the heads, Â£300-500 for the cam and bits and I suspect a few hundred sorting out EFI. If I add a LSD that's another Â£500-1000.

I have thought about turboing my 3.5 but would it make the power without a rebuild or EFI? There's nitrous oxide but it only offers part time power and no part throttle performance increase. And still have all the drivetrain issues.

When I converted it to V8 power 9 years ago I didn't have the money for a bigger than 3.5 engine I also wanted to stick BL and what would have been capable in the 70's to sort of show what BL could have done. But I've done this now and would like to step it up a gear and make more use of modern parts. Make it a TR7 for the 21st cent.

Does anyone have any info on swapping in something like a LS1 and T56 or a Jaaguar AJV8 and manual tranny? Any more info on that Volvo axle?

I reckon to swap in a descet 4.6 Rover lump making good power with EFI and a LSD would cost around Â£4k. That leaves a lot of scope to do other things. You can pick up an entire Jag XJ8 4.0 litre for Â£1500 running with MOT. That motor makes 290hp straight off, rip the emissions stuff off and add a descent exhaust/intake and I personally feel it'd romp all over pretty much any Rover 4.6 and with better mpg.

Thanks.

Wayne S · Postby **Wayne S** » 20 Oct 2009 10:37

The ultimate Grinnall is running an X300 straight six on Webers. If you dropped in the superchraged version thats 380 BHP. But the whole idea of cutting the bulkhead and altering the dash to fit it all in might be just too much like hard work.

http://www.grinnall-register.fotopic.ne ... 101_1.html

2.0 Litre DHC Grinnall
Red 4.0 Litre V8 DHC Grinnall (with huuuuuge arches...!)

richards · Postby **richards** » 20 Oct 2009 15:32

Practical Performance car Magazine are using the volvo axle on there mk2 escort project and a 2.3 saab 9000 turbo engine with an aim of an easy 400bhp.
I think there is a forum member here from the states that has an LS1 engine in his 7.

Get a lifestyle
Get a TR7!

www.ttr7.co.uk

Marko · Postby **Marko** » 20 Oct 2009 16:54

hmm hmm hmmmmm

doing a major surgery on the car.....

rear IRS comes in mind,

bolting on whole rear subframe+suspension+diff, from a RWD car , capable of producing that kind of power.

does it have to be rover v8?

there are lots of other engines capable of producing similar HP from lower volume(mass)

N/A or boosted?

give us some limitations

300bhpton · Postby **300bhpton** » 20 Oct 2009 18:40

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by richards

Practical Performance car Magazine are using the volvo axle on there mk2 escort project and a 2.3 saab 9000 turbo engine with an aim of an easy 400bhp.
I think there is a forum member here from the states that has an LS1 engine in his 7.

Get a lifestyle
Get a TR7!

www.ttr7.co.uk

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Def interested in finding out more about that axle.

V8Wedgehead · Postby **V8Wedgehead** » 20 Oct 2009 18:41

http://www.lanocharacing.com/

Need not say anything more.................

Michael
1980 TR8 FHCs; Rally Conversion #0020 & Stock #0058

If it is broken then fix it....if it is not then make it faster!"

300bhpton · Postby **300bhpton** » 20 Oct 2009 19:12

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Marko

hmm hmm hmmmmm

doing a major surgery on the car.....

rear IRS comes in mind,

bolting on whole rear subframe+suspension+diff, from a RWD car , capable of producing that kind of power.

does it have to be rover v8?

there are lots of other engines capable of producing similar HP from lower volume(mass)

N/A or boosted?

give us some limitations
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Only real limitation is money and getting it done. I can only do so much, so things I can't do would have to be paid for.

As for the engine, no it doesn't have to be a Rover. As much as I love them, they are old and out dated and lack displacement compared to modern stuff.

A 2.7 TDV6 Discovery 3 (LR3 to you guys in the US) with just as remap will make 230hp, more than my 3.5 V8 and a load more torque. It'll do all this and still return over 30mpg in a 2.7 tonne 4x4.

I like the idea of a LS1. Only thing is I don't know how much I could pick one up for in the UK. And I already have one in my Camaro, but that wouldn't stop the idea as I think they are a fab engine and weigh not much more than an RV8.

I really like the idea of using a Jaguar AJV8 possibly with a supercharger. But I know these all run auto boxes and that I don't want. I looked a year or so ago on the Cobra kit car forums and word then seemed to be that getting one of these to run with a manual gearbox on a stand alone ECU would not be easy.

I'm open to other suggestions, but would like to stick with a V8 really. Someone on another forum suggested a Rover T series 2.0 litre turbo or Duratec, but these just don't interest me.

I'm not adverse to using a Rover V8, so long as I won't be disappointed with the end result.

Budget wise, well I guess I'd base it on how much swapping a 4.6 Rover V8 with head/cam and a descent EFI setup and a LSD in the stock axle would cost.

Not sure exactly how much this would cost, but guess at:

Engine Â£1500
Heads Â£900
Cam Â£500
EFI Â£500
LSD axle Â£1000

So that's Â£4400.

Could I get more power and a better engine/tranny combo for similar money?

I suppose another option would FI.

Maybe I should find a stock tidy 3.9 V8 and see about slapping a couple of turbo's on it and a descent EFI setup. Any idea what sort of hp one of these could make on superunleaded fuel without over stressing the stock internals?

PeterTR7V8 · Postby **PeterTR7V8** » 20 Oct 2009 19:33

This would be an interesting mod... http://www.ststurbo.com/. A rear mounted turbo would certainly gauruntee as much interest as it would power.

Never say die. At least not while you're still breathing.

300bhpton · Postby **300bhpton** » 20 Oct 2009 20:03

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by PeterTR7V8

This would be an interesting mod... http://www.ststurbo.com/. A rear mounted turbo would certainly gauruntee as much interest as it would power.

Never say die. At least not while you're still breathing.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Yeah I know of these guys, was thinking about something like it maybe.

300bhpton · Postby **300bhpton** » 20 Oct 2009 20:05

here this is sort of what I mean:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/JAGUAR-X350-STYPE ... 1879wt_939

22k (mile) 2006 Jaguar 4.2 V8 with a Buy it Now price of Â£1500!!!!

If there was a simply way to hook it up to a manual tranny you'd be made to fork out more money for a higher mileage RV8 4.6 making nearly 100hp less.

Marko · Postby **Marko** » 20 Oct 2009 21:11

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by 300bhpton



Engine Â£1500
Heads Â£900
Cam Â£500
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

some of the riceburner engines readily available in uk? ,
they are a good value for money, that is HP for money.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_SR20DET
cheap as chips, stock 200ish HP , stock internals sustain even 280 HP.
the engine is engineered as a turbocharged, as in oil squirters in the crankcase, engine blocks and heads,crankshaft withstand massive HP. aftermarket parts readily available, and relatively cheap.

toyota supra engines?

BMW has some good engines but they are expensive to rebuild and if equiped with vanos or valvetronic(there are lots of models of variable valve timing/duration in BMW's) more complicated to convert to SA EFI.

you can get a whole car for that amount of money,( rusted or planted in a tree/lamp post/other car), salvage the drive train, most of those riceburner cars are equipped as stock with clutch-pack LSD's or at least viscous LSD's

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by 300bhpton

EFI Â£500

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

250ish pounds for VEMS
injectors are around 50+ euros per piece.
200$ LC1 wideband (cheapest WBO2 that i can vouch for)

as for ignition, ford double coils(escort/focus), wasted spark system, cheap, reliable, duratec/zetec engines have a crappy mixture formation , thats why their spark plugs have a gap of 1mm , most of the engines have half that size.

one of your local guys called Allan makes some good standalones, but they are a bit on the pricey side , at http://www.dtafast.co.uk/

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by 300bhpton

LSD axle Â£1000
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

hmm this one is hard, quaife LSD (torsen not made by torsen), is alone 500 pounds.
the cheapest new LSD's I ever acquired where 415$ Torsens for our Formula Student (FSAE over the pond) cars, and those where direct from the factory for Formula Student only , that is the quoted price of MANUFACTURE( they say that they almost don't earn anything on those units sold to us), because they make up that loss on all of the audi's ,toyota's rav4, mazda mx5 , that they install those diffs into.

so you cant go cheap in this section, i return again to that suggestion of buying a whole car that has the parts that you require and taking it apart as a cheapest solution.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">[i]Originally posted by 300bhpton

So that's Â£4400.

Could I get more power and a better engine/tranny combo for similar money?

I suppose another option would FI.

Maybe I should find a stock tidy 3.9 V8 and see about slapping a couple of turbo's on it and a descent EFI setup. Any idea what sort of hp one of these could make on superunleaded fuel without over stressing the stock internals?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

double turbos= double expense = double trouble
calculate like this tubocharger costs around 800+,900+ pounds , 2 turbos eat away half of your budget, and i didnt even count the manifolds, piping, fuel requirements

most of the people find hard to maintain a single turbo let alone 2 of them , with all the piping and maintenance.

peter sugested those remote turbos, to all that above ad a month of turbo lag.

all of these suggestions of tools and equipment are based on the stuff that i used/came in contact with , there are probably better or equal and cheaper solutions but i havent found them yet.

to finish

performance isn't gained only with HP , mass reduction and suspension setup also plays a major role.

for an example, Seat Leon supercopa 300 HP, turbo ,DSG gearbox,LSD

gets killed by 4 sec's per lap by a 260 HP WTCC Seat Leon (NA,Hewland dogclutch, LSD) on the same track mass is around same , same driver, same racetrack.

im brainstorming of installing a K20 engine, thats 200KG with 6 speed transmission , 240 HP , long lasting engine, 200k+ atleast.

http://www.clockwisemotion.co.uk/
this guy usualy buys all wrecked S2000's in UK since you cant buy a crate engine. if i remember right, engines where around 4000 euros.

as you brought up ebay, there was one lamborghini diablo V12 engine for sale couple of months ago 12000 euros, 500 hp in the box [:D][:D][:D][:D]

diver · Postby **diver** » 20 Oct 2009 22:37

HP on high side on this side of pond.
I thought about a high HP engine in a TR7.
I have a mid 80's Buick turbo V6 which will push a
3000 lb car 180 mph in 1/4 mile in about 8 seconds.
However, for the TR I took off the turbo (broken)
and the piping (would not fit under bonnet) and put
4 barrel carb on it. That way I didn't change much else.
It fits, easy with auto trans to drive and not always
breaking something $$$$. Sold everything else to
someone who wanted to spend &&&& for few seconds rush.
diver

Anonymous

Big HP - tranny, axle & engine swap???

Big HP - tranny, axle & engine swap???

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