This can't be right ??

macmattom · Postby **macmattom** » 23 Feb 2009 21:00

Am I right in thinking you can legally transfer rights to the number plate, so isn't that the way the guy should be going about this?

I've emailed the trader - I think I've worded my question diplomatically, please judge for yourselves and let me know!!!!

Quote
"Hi. Please don't take offence as this is an honest question (I don't know the answer) but is this type of transaction legal? I wouldn't want to make a purchase and find I can't use the plate. I thought you had to transfer ownership of the rights to the number plate, not the V5 itself. As I said, I don't know the answer and this isn't meant as anything but a genuine question - please don't take offence.

Also, isn't there a chance that somebody who has stolen a TR7 (one was stolen recently and the police notified all owners clubs to be aware) could simply clone the vehicle and for the sake of a couple of pounds the legal owner and the buyer could all be innocent victims of fraud.

Thanks very much,

Mac

I'll let you know of any reply I get.

The pheonix rises from the ashes - just give it time!

http://s733.photobucket.com/albums/ww338/macmattom/

Steve @ SandS · Postby **Steve @ SandS** » 23 Feb 2009 21:05

To transfer any plate the car needs to be taxed and MOT'd, this obviously isn't.Also if the car has been off the road for a while, ie not taxed according to DVLA records they would ask for a vehicle inspection prior to doing the transfer.There is no way he can transfer that number with the docs he has.

Steve @ S&S Preparations

HowardB · Postby **HowardB** » 23 Feb 2009 21:14

Its still for sale on Ebay today - if this illegal does anyone know if it can be reported to other authorities who may have more clout eg DVLA?

ngtf · Postby **ngtf** » 23 Feb 2009 21:15

You're absolutely right Steve, but that's only assuming someone tries to transfer the plate legally. There is nothing stopping some unscrupulous git from stealing a car and changing the vin and number plates that come with this auction, then getting it mot'd.

It still stinks to me.

Gary

Eeyore rides again !!

EOR14W - Persian Aqua 2L Dhc, Now rebuilt and looking lovely - Sprint engine now fitted!

Beans · Postby **Beans** » 23 Feb 2009 21:18

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve @ SandS

...There is no way he can transfer that number with the docs he has<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Could "export" the car to the continent though [B)]
Pressuming the documents are complete ....

<center>

1981 TR7 FHC Sprint (better known as 't Kreng)
1981 TR7 DHC (not very well known yet, but back on the road)
Also a 1980 TR7 DHC, 1980 TR7 DHC FI, 1981 TR7 FHC
http://tr7beans.blogspot.com/</center>

macmattom · Postby **macmattom** » 23 Feb 2009 21:25

I've never placed a vehicle as SORN, but if I did would I need to surrender the V5 or do you get to keep that? The reason I ask is because if he hasn't SORN'd the car, DVLA might not know to ask. Just a thought!

I'm more intrigued than concerned but would like to know the answer because I bought my car from a scrappie - no V5, no SORN, just a rear number plate. Once it's near completion I was going to re-register it. Would I be able to keep (what I believe to be) the original numberplate based on that and would DVLA be able to give me the original chasis number to put on the identification plate I've bought, or will they give me a new number plate and chasis number? I don't know if the previous owner informed DVLA - is there any way for me to find out? It'd be nice to have an idea of how this will pan out for me!!

Cheers,

Mac

The pheonix rises from the ashes - just give it time!

http://s733.photobucket.com/albums/ww338/macmattom/

saabfast · Postby **saabfast** » 23 Feb 2009 21:41

When you declare a car SORN you do not need to surrender the V5, just tell DVLA (you can do it online) and they write and confirm it. You have to do it each year. I declare my car SORN for the winter months when it is put away, then retax it in the summer, all online (I keep it insured all year).

Not sure but I think if you apply for a V5 for a car which has not been on the road you get the original number if possible, or an age related plate if not.

Alan
Saab 9000 Stg 1
Saab 9000 2.3 FPT Auto
'81 TR7 DHC

ngtf · Postby **ngtf** » 23 Feb 2009 21:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by macmattom

I've never placed a vehicle as SORN, but if I did would I need to surrender the V5 or do you get to keep that? The reason I ask is because if he hasn't SORN'd the car, DVLA might not know to ask. Just a thought!

I'm more intrigued than concerned but would like to know the answer because I bought my car from a scrappie - no V5, no SORN, just a rear number plate. Once it's near completion I was going to re-register it. Would I be able to keep (what I believe to be) the original numberplate based on that and would DVLA be able to give me the original chasis number to put on the identification plate I've bought, or will they give me a new number plate and chasis number? I don't know if the previous owner informed DVLA - is there any way for me to find out? It'd be nice to have an idea of how this will pan out for me!!

Cheers,

Mac

The pheonix rises from the ashes - just give it time!

http://s733.photobucket.com/albums/ww338/macmattom/
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hi Mac

This one is a little more difficult.

Does your car have vin number?
Why was it at the scrappie, was it written off, if so, what was the category of the write-off. Only cat c & d can be rebuilt and put back on the road. Cat a & b have to be destroyed.
If it was a cat c or d, you theoretically only need a VIC check performed (about Â£30 from memory) and then registration should be a formality.
If it wasn't written off but was scrapped for other reasons, you might be able to keep the original registration if you can prove that most of the original car still exists on the car but the original VIN would certainly help.

I would recommend you talk to your local vehicle licensing office sooner rather than later to get the correct advise on this.

Gary

Eeyore rides again !!

EOR14W - Persian Aqua 2L Dhc, Now rebuilt and looking lovely - Sprint engine now fitted!

macmattom · Postby **macmattom** » 23 Feb 2009 22:18

Cheers Gary - let's hope it wasn't a Cat A or B right-off or there'll be lots (and I mean lots) of clean, shiney, painted, serviceable bits for a TR7 on ebay pretty soon, and I'll be buying all the tissues I can!

I actually think the previous owner just ran out of time and patience, because the car was in really good nick, with just a tiny bit of welding (less than the size of a 5p piece just to fill a small hole) needing doing, but the perfectionist in me wanted to do a full resto. However, before I waste any more time I will try to contact DVLA (somehow) to see what's what. Thanks for your advice, better safe than sorry (perhaps I could buy this V5 and clone my car!!).

I emailed Jim, the trader (see the post above) and he's replied with the following:

hi i never thought of that, that a stolen one could be cloned with this, i thought it was just like when you are building a kitcar or doing an old car up, you get a doner vehicle for the age related plate, just thought it was too nice a number to let it go to the scrapyard in the sky. i have actually said in the ad that i have destroyed and cut up the vehicle, which i have pictures to prove this, to show that there wouldnt be two of them, so i didnt think this would be cloning, and who ever i sell it too, to use it they have got to test the car with this number on, and send it back to the dvla to change the details of ownership, many thanks,jim

I subsequently responded to him with the following:

Hi Jim. Thanks; the reason I asked is that I have just one of those projects -a TR7 bought from a scrappie that I am giving a new lease of life, but all I have to identify it is the rear number plate and I need to register it soon! I don't know anything about this, but it appears to me that you are selling the rights to the registration. If I am right, depending on what you get on ebay (it might only go for Â£2!) you might be losing out on a plate worth hundreds. Have you thought about one of those number plate traders (before one of them bids Â£2 and sells it for buckets of cash!). You might get more than ebay! Your listing has provoked a large discussion on a TR7 forum I use (http://www.forum.triumphtr7.com/topic.a ... hichpage=2). I hope you don't mind but I posted my previous question onto the forum and will do with your answer and this question as there is a lot of "speculative" discussion. Maybe this might help reduce that "speculation"!
Thanks again, Mac

I think I am right, and if so would hate to see a guy ripped off but I might be wrong; I'd appreciate being educated if I am!

The pheonix rises from the ashes - just give it time!

http://s733.photobucket.com/albums/ww338/macmattom/

tr7inc · Postby **tr7inc** » 24 Feb 2009 06:22

Hi Mac, it will be very interesting to see what reply you do get back from the seller, i think with youre car Mac, if in any doubt just call the DVLA, better being safe.

Steve
1979 Pre Production Prototype Inca Yellow DHC

tr7inc · Postby **tr7inc** » 24 Feb 2009 06:26

Mac my car is Sorn, off the road legally, when i bought the car, it had all its doc etc, i both myself and the previous owner sent the neccessary docs to the DVLA, for the car to be offically mine, i rang them to say i wanted to keep my car off the road till such time i got her finished they sent me a form. i filled a section out and that was it really.

Steve
1979 Pre Production Prototype Inca Yellow DHC

Wayne S · Postby **Wayne S** » 24 Feb 2009 06:37

Mac, what the eBay seller is doing is illegal. period.

But in your case I would get the wheels in motion with the DVLA ASAP, I have some experience with this following a complicated story with my Dad's GTR4 Dove. It had been modified so extensively in the 1970's that the DVLA required it to be re-registered. The fight was then on following its restoration to factory condition some 20 years later to get its heritage plate and certificate back. The process took years, literally!

I also have heard a number of issues relating specifically to registering 7's due to the fact that VIN plate is on the turret ( a repairable panel) and not a chassis leg or similar. This now infringes on regulations and so have heard owners needing to plead with the DVLA to allow the car to be re - tested and given the correct papers - again a long drawn out affair!

You may be lucky and have it resolved quickly as you do at least have evidence of the original plate, theoretically it should be case of buying a new V5 from them, but I'd start now to make sure you can drive the car when your resto is finished!

FOR SALE!!!!Purple 2.0 Litre DHC Grinnall
Red 4.0 Litre V8 DHC Grinnall (with huuuuuge arches...!)

ngtf · Postby **ngtf** » 24 Feb 2009 09:04

Has anyone else noticed that the ebay item that started this thread has now been pulled. I did contact DVLA yesterday but even they don't move that quickly. Perhaps Ebay finally did the right thing.

Gary

Eeyore rides again !!

EOR14W - Persian Aqua 2L Dhc, Now rebuilt and looking lovely - Sprint engine now fitted!

Howard722 · Postby **Howard722** » 24 Feb 2009 16:36

My bidwatcher says it was removed from site shortly after noon today-no other details. Good result.

Enjoy& regards

ngtf · Postby **ngtf** » 26 Feb 2009 10:32

Whilst this is all a little late etc; I thought others may like to see the response I got from DVLA re the sale of V5C and Vin.

Thank-you for your recent e-mail to the DVLA Customer Enquiry unit about your concerns over possible vehicle ID fraud on the E-bay website

Whilst I appreciate your concerns and thank-you for bringing matters such as these to our attention, I am afraid that the DVLA cannot govern what is advertised for sale on the Internet or via other media sources.

The Agency does write to all reported Internet sites informing them of the unlawful sale of tax discs/VIN plates and V5 registration documents. However, the Agency can only make a note of the transaction on the vehicle record when a customer informs us of the misconduct and states the vehicle registration number concerned.

I can assure you that the Agency will continue to do everything it can to prevent the illegal trading of government documents/material on the Internet, however, the Agency continues to be restricted to the amount of action it can take.

In cases where the vehicle registration number is provided, the Agency can place a marker to automatically 'block' any transaction from taking place. This would mean that cases could be thoroughly investigated to prevent any illegal activities from taking place.

I regret that the security settings on our e-mail prevent us from opening the link that you have provided. If you could put the required information in the body of an email then we will be able to forward the issue for investigation.

Regards

Mr I Harris
www.direct.gov.uk/motoring
[THREAD ID:1-10PH9O]


Hopefully everyone can see that what the ebayer was doing was illegal and DVLA will now continue with their investigation.

Regards

Gary

Eeyore rides again !!

EOR14W - Persian Aqua 2L Dhc, Now rebuilt and looking lovely - Sprint engine now fitted!

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