Leaking water pump

macmattom · Postby **macmattom** » 02 Nov 2009 12:53

I had a bit of a disaster on Saturday when I tried to fill the engine with coolant. I had more leaks than a cabinet meeting, but the one that concerns me most is from the water pump. I had a slow trickle of rusty looking liquid coming out of the slot below the water pump housing, so reckon I'll have to remove the water pump and investigate. Does anybody have any ideas about what might be causing this?

Is this a big job (I'll have to take off the inlet manifold anyway so that's no drama), and can anybody give me any clues. I think the housing cover is pretty solid so will try to "persuade" it out by rotating and pulling rather than just trying to lift out, but does anybody have any tips? How much would a water pump removal tool cost to buy if needed, or is there a work around I could use?

I also have a leak where my Kenlowe fan sensor goes into the radiator which is annoying as I've used the sealing washer supplied, but I'll cross that one when I sort out the pump and inlet. However, if anybody has any tips in the meantime, all appreciated.

I'm a bit gutted because I have a good spark across the coil, my oil and brake/clutch systems don't appear to be leaking, and nor does the fuel system up to the ful rail. I suppose something had to give, so can't complain too much, but it has put me back a few weeks maybe.

I did think about giving the whole thing up at one point, but was probably just feeling sorry for myself. To quote a phrase - winners never quit and quitters never win.

Cheers for any advice,

Mac

The pheonix rises from the ashes - just give it time!

(two and a half years and counting - but who's counting!!)

http://s733.photobucket.com/albums/ww338/macmattom/

busheytrader · Postby **busheytrader** » 02 Nov 2009 14:56

Hi Mac,

Along with cylinder head removal, this is probably the most niggly problem on a 7. This water pump thread is probably the most recent.
http://www.forum.triumphtr7.com/topic.a ... water,pump
Back in the 80's I jobbed this one out to Cox and Buckles as no one else wanted to touch it, such was the reputation of the Dolly water pump.

Those capillary sensors can be difficult to seal the radiator hoses around properly. I had to use a hex drive socket on the jubilee hose clip to torque it up enough for a proper seal, even better on a warm / hot hose. A large screwdriver wasn't up to it.

Adam

TR7 V8 DHC Jaguar Solent Blue. 9.35cr Range Rover V8, Holley 390cfm, JWR Dual Port, 214 Cam, Lumention, Tubular Manifolds, S/S Single Pipe Exh, 3.08 Rear, 200lb Spax & PolyBushes all round, Anti- Dive, Top Roller Bearings, Capri Vented Discs & Calipers, Braided Hoses, 4 Speed Rear Cylinders, Uprated Master Cylinder & Servo, AT 5 Spokes and Cruise Lights. S/S Heater Pipes. No Door Stickers. Mine since July 1986, V8 from 1991

HDRider · Postby **HDRider** » 02 Nov 2009 16:09

With the correct tools the pump is not that bad. I have done 4 now. You need a small slide hammer to remove the impeller assembly and a bushing removal tool is very usefull for the bushing deep in the block. A small press is handy when rebuilding the actual pump.

You can rebuild the pump or get another one. VB here in the states sells them at a reasonable cost.

A bit of permatex is a good idea when installing the sensor bulb in the radiator hose. The kits usually come with a bit of foam to use also. The problem is trying to get the rubber hose to form to the sharp/small bump. It is almost impossible when you consider the under cut on the bottom of the circular cross section of the tubing. Not to mention that too much pressure can collaspe the tube.

Edward Hamer
Petaluma CA

Beans · Postby **Beans** » 02 Nov 2009 17:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by macmattom

... Does anybody have any ideas about what might be causing this? ... <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Probably the seal that has perished ...

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by macmattom

... . However, if anybody has any tips in the meantime, all appreciated ... <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

A few write-ups on these topics in my weblog;
[url="http://www.tr7beans.blogspot.com/2007/09/changing-waterpump.html"]Changing water pump the easy way[/url];

[url="http://www.tr7beans.blogspot.com/2008/05/found-water-pump-today.html"]Rebuilding waterpump[/url]

<center>

1981 TR7 FHC Sprint (better known as 't Kreng)
1980 TR7 DHC (my first car currently being restored)
In parts a 1980 TR7 PI DHC, 1981 TR7 DHC, 1981 TR7 FHC
http://tr7beans.blogspot.com/</center>

saabfast · Postby **saabfast** » 02 Nov 2009 19:57

My kit came with a foam pad for the sensor but it was too thick to get the hose over. I used silicon sealant on the rad spigot as bedding around the capillary position, pushed the bulb and capilliary into the hose then slid it over the spigot. I have never had any leaks from it.

Alan
Saab 9000 Stg 1
Saab 9000 2.3 FPT Auto
'81 TR7 DHC

Beans · Postby **Beans** » 02 Nov 2009 20:07

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by macmattom

... I also have a leak where my Kenlowe fan sensor goes into the radiator ...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Or try this to fit the sensor ...

much neater in my humble opinion [;)]

<center>

1981 TR7 FHC Sprint (better known as 't Kreng)
1980 TR7 DHC (my first car currently being restored)
In parts a 1980 TR7 PI DHC, 1981 TR7 DHC, 1981 TR7 FHC
http://tr7beans.blogspot.com/</center>

dougi · Postby **dougi** » 02 Nov 2009 22:03

i attached a slide hammer and popped it out i think i welded a nut to the thread and popped it out like that and cleaned up thread after. it was a long time ago mind you ?

Spectatohead · Postby **Spectatohead** » 03 Nov 2009 05:09

I really like Beans' solution there. Is that sensor just an on/off switch or is it an actual variable temp sensor. My electric fan setup has the capillary bulb that is supposed to go in the upper hose. It also has a rheostat to adjust when the fan comes on. When I replaced the hoses I was no longer able to get the top hose to seal with the capillary bulb. If I could use a sensor like the one Beans has, and still use the rheostat, I'd be delighted. Where would one find this sensor and the hose fitting for it?

Thanks,

Jim Clark
'80 TR8
'97 Maxima 5spd

Beans · Postby **Beans** » 03 Nov 2009 16:18

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Spectatohead

I really like Beans' solution there ...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Not my car, I stick to the original set up as long as the fan doesn't hurl itself through the radiator.
Parts shown in the picture were sourced from Demon Tweeks.

<center>

1981 TR7 FHC Sprint (better known as 't Kreng)
1980 TR7 DHC (my first car currently being restored)
In parts a 1980 TR7 PI DHC, 1981 TR7 DHC, 1981 TR7 FHC
http://tr7beans.blogspot.com/</center>

busheytrader · Postby **busheytrader** » 03 Nov 2009 21:33

Hi Jim,

There's several suppiers here in the UK who sell that kind of temp switch and adapter that fits in the hose. There's a choice of fixed temperatures at which the fan turns on or off.

http://www.nfauto.co.uk/download/catalogue.pdf

I bought the item featured on page 70 from these guys who specialise in kit car parts. The sensors are on page 69. Hopefully there's an equivalent where you are.

Adam

TR7 V8 DHC Jaguar Solent Blue. 9.35cr Range Rover V8, Holley 390cfm, JWR Dual Port, 214 Cam, Lumention, Tubular Manifolds, S/S Single Pipe Exh, 3.08 Rear, 200lb Spax & PolyBushes all round, Anti- Dive, Top Roller Bearings, Capri Vented Discs & Calipers, Braided Hoses, 4 Speed Rear Cylinders, Uprated Master Cylinder & Servo, AT 5 Spokes and Cruise Lights. S/S Heater Pipes. No Door Stickers. Mine since July 1986, V8 from 1991

macmattom · Postby **macmattom** » 06 Nov 2009 17:54

I thought I'd check all the nuts, bolts and jubilee clips today before I took the inlet manifold off. Some were not as tight as they could have been, so I tightened them up and refilled the coolant. I gave all the rad pipes a good squeeze and slowly but surely brought the water level up, and to my absolute joy I found I'd eliminated most of the leaks. Whooppee [:D].

The water pump still leaks from the slot below the housing, but I'm hoping that, as the car and engine have been sat for years, the seal might now expand once in use and become effective again. Has anybody else heard of this or experienced this themselves - it would be nice to know I'm in with a chance [^].

I've filled the system as much as I can and will now leave it to settle for a week and see what the situation is next week. Fingers crossed.

My the next big worry though is that the coolant system holds up when under pressure. I turned the engine over last week and there was a bit too much water dripping for my liking (any drip is too much, but this was dripping about every second or 2 - not good). I'm just hoping that was because of all the water I poured everywhere and all those nuts and bolts I had to tighten up, and not that it's okay when pressurised. If not, then the head will probably have to come off. Not good.

I'll let you know what happens next week - I'm still hoping to start the engine this side of Christmas.

Cheers,

Mac


The pheonix rises from the ashes - just give it time!

(two and a half years and counting - but who's counting!!)

http://s733.photobucket.com/albums/ww338/macmattom/

Workshop Help · Postby **Workshop Help** » 06 Nov 2009 19:09

Nope, it's new water pump time for you! And, I mean a NEW water pump, not a rebuild. Rebuild kits will work only if the impeller shaft is not corroded, and they all corrode even with religious mixing and changing of antifreeze solutions. As the shaft corrodes, the bearing surface is compromised and the leak drips again. Trying to reclaim the surface alters the shaft dimension with a new drip out the slot.

Please, a new pump will make you happy for a long time. Mix a quality anti-freeze with distilled water at a 50/50 split. I would not trust the premix gallon jugs as no one knows what kind of water may be in there.

Mildred Hargis

Beans · Postby **Beans** » 06 Nov 2009 19:10

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by macmattom

... the seal might now expand once in use and become effective again ... <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The seal won't expand but it might be that it will re-seat itself. But usually it will start to leak after a while, might be weeks or months or even longer. Depends on the state of the seal and how (frequent) the car is used.

<center>

1981 TR7 FHC Sprint (better known as 't Kreng)
1980 TR7 DHC (my first car currently being restored)
In parts a 1980 TR7 PI DHC, 1981 TR7 DHC, 1981 TR7 FHC
http://tr7beans.blogspot.com/</center>

macmattom · Postby **macmattom** » 07 Nov 2009 11:10

Thanks very much for your advice. I'm kind of torn between plodding on just to get engine running or taking the pump out now and rebuilding. I've got 3 spare egines, one of which is sacrificial, so I might take that one to bits to see how it's done and rebuild one of the other 3 then replace later.

I don't have the proper tool, so can anybody advise me on my plan? I intend to weld a steel shaft onto the LH thread bolt and a t-piece across the top so that I can make my own slide hammer of sorts. Is it then just a case of pulling the water pump out with gentle brute force, or do I have to be aware of anything first?

Once again, thanks for your help, at least I know the pump needs replacing (Â£188 from Rimmers - [:0]!)

The pheonix rises from the ashes - just give it time!

(two and a half years and counting - but who's counting!!)

http://s733.photobucket.com/albums/ww338/macmattom/

fastman · Postby **fastman** » 07 Nov 2009 12:39

I changed my pump for new without specialized tools. Follow the manual regarding some unique features like the spacing of the cover by gaskets and the left handed threads on the pump center bolt (jclay has one for downloading I'm certain). With the center bolt lossened just enough, I used a pry bar and a blade screw driver to prise the pump out. I was careful not to put too much pressure on either side at once so as to 'jam' it in place. I also used a lots of penatraiting oil days before the attempt and tapping the center bolt to create vibrations around the pump in aid of dislodging some corrosion (this may have been futile). When the unit finally came out, I had the brass basket out with the pump. Some separate so peel it out and clean-up the area. This was all done with the head attatched. Good idea to practice on a sacrificial block. Don't sweat the problems...they're just an opportunity for solutions. Happy wrenching.

Anonymous

Leaking water pump

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