Big HP - tranny, axle & engine swap???

PeterTR7V8 · Postby **PeterTR7V8** » 20 Oct 2009 22:48

Marko, everone who looks at the Squires rear-mounted turbo brings up the lag. The actual fact is that they are designed so that there is virtually no lag and there is plenty of youtube coverage on the STS system to support this.

Never say die. At least not while you're still breathing.

Workshop Help · Postby **Workshop Help** » 21 Oct 2009 00:08

I can see it now. All that money spent for all that horsepower, exotic gearbox, custom rearend, fancy front & rear brakes and hydraulics, big buck suspension. Get it MOT'd. Pull out of the driveway and a police car follows you all the way to the grocery store and back. Each stop light is red when you get to it. The radar trailers are always on the route you take.

Then there's the traffic gridlock where you watch the senior citizen on the sidewalk with his walker going faster than you are, stuck in a traffic jam. What is it? 300-500-700-950 horsepower and an old guy with his walker on the sidewalk is passing you by.

Yes, dreams are like window shopping. They are better to ponder than to actually do.

Mildred Hargis

300bhpton · Postby **300bhpton** » 21 Oct 2009 07:06

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mildred

I can see it now. All that money spent for all that horsepower, exotic gearbox, custom rearend, fancy front & rear brakes and hydraulics, big buck suspension. Get it MOT'd. Pull out of the driveway and a police car follows you all the way to the grocery store and back. Each stop light is red when you get to it. The radar trailers are always on the route you take.

Then there's the traffic gridlock where you watch the senior citizen on the sidewalk with his walker going faster than you are, stuck in a traffic jam. What is it? 300-500-700-950 horsepower and an old guy with his walker on the sidewalk is passing you by.

Yes, dreams are like window shopping. They are better to ponder than to actually do.

Mildred Hargis
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Wow thanks that was really helpful [8)] maybe posting nothing next time would be even better though?

300bhpton · Postby **300bhpton** » 21 Oct 2009 07:19

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by PeterTR7V8

Marko, everone who looks at the Squires rear-mounted turbo brings up the lag. The actual fact is that they are designed so that there is virtually no lag and there is plenty of youtube coverage on the STS system to support this.

Never say die. At least not while you're still breathing.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Lag has always been my qestion and when I've spoken to them about it they have always gone very quiet.

I think the trouble is defining lag, as a lot of people confuse it with boost threshold. Boost threshold is the rpm point (or amount of exhaust gas flow) that is required to make boost, such as 3500rpm. This is not lag.

Lag can occur at any rpm and results after a turbo stall period. Say at 5000rpm you go from WOT to closed throttle, the sudden drop in exhaust gas flow will cause the turbo to slow down. If you then reapply full throttle there will be a lag before the exhaust gas flow is sufficient to make boost again and a lag while the intake system is pressurised. I don't know for sure but having the turbo a long way from the engine means there is a lot of tubing in the e xuast reducing heat and pressure so would take longer to spin the turbo. There is also a lot of tubing from the turbo to the TB although I don't know if by volume this is any greater than a normal front mount with an intercooler.

Personally I really like the STS setup and would be willing to give it a try. Ultimate hp levels I believe without question but it's the driveability that concerns me.

300bhpton · Postby **300bhpton** » 21 Oct 2009 07:26

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Marko

[quote]Originally posted by 300bhpton

[quote]

Engine Â£1500
Heads Â£900
Cam Â£500
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

some of the riceburner engines readily available in uk? ,
they are a good value for money, that is HP for money.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_SR20DET
cheap as chips, stock 200ish HP , stock internals sustain even 280 HP.
the engine is engineered as a turbocharged, as in oil squirters in the crankcase, engine blocks and heads,crankshaft withstand massive HP. aftermarket parts readily available, and relatively cheap.

toyota supra engines?

BMW has some good engines but they are expensive to rebuild and if equiped with vanos or valvetronic(there are lots of models of variable valve timing/duration in BMW's) more complicated to convert to SA EFI.

you can get a whole car for that amount of money,( rusted or planted in a tree/lamp post/other car), salvage the drive train, most of those riceburner cars are equipped as stock with clutch-pack LSD's or at least viscous LSD's
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

[quote]Originally posted by 300bhpton

[quote]

EFI Â£500

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

250ish pounds for VEMS
injectors are around 50+ euros per piece.
200$ LC1 wideband (cheapest WBO2 that i can vouch for)

as for ignition, ford double coils(escort/focus), wasted spark system, cheap, reliable, duratec/zetec engines have a crappy mixture formation , thats why their spark plugs have a gap of 1mm , most of the engines have half that size.

one of your local guys called Allan makes some good standalones, but they are a bit on the pricey side , at http://www.dtafast.co.uk/

[quote][i]Originally posted by 300bhpton

[quote][i]

LSD axle Â£1000
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

hmm this one is hard, quaife LSD (torsen not made by torsen), is alone 500 pounds.
the cheapest new LSD's I ever acquired where 415$ Torsens for our Formula Student (FSAE over the pond) cars, and those where direct from the factory for Formula Student only , that is the quoted price of MANUFACTURE( they say that they almost don't earn anything on those units sold to us), because they make up that loss on all of the audi's ,toyota's rav4, mazda mx5 , that they install those diffs into.

so you cant go cheap in this section, i return again to that suggestion of buying a whole car that has the parts that you require and taking it apart as a cheapest solution.

[quote][i]Originally posted by 300bhpton

[quote][i]

So that's Â£4400.

Could I get more power and a better engine/tranny combo for similar money?

I suppose another option would FI.

Maybe I should find a stock tidy 3.9 V8 and see about slapping a couple of turbo's on it and a descent EFI setup. Any idea what sort of hp one of these could make on superunleaded fuel without over stressing the stock internals?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

double turbos= double expense = double trouble
calculate like this tubocharger costs around 800+,900+ pounds , 2 turbos eat away half of your budget, and i didnt even count the manifolds, piping, fuel requirements

most of the people find hard to maintain a single turbo let alone 2 of them , with all the piping and maintenance.

peter sugested those remote turbos, to all that above ad a month of turbo lag.

all of these suggestions of tools and equipment are based on the stuff that i used/came in contact with , there are probably better or equal and cheaper solutions but i havent found them yet.

to finish

performance isn't gained only with HP , mass reduction and suspension setup also plays a major role.

for an example, Seat Leon supercopa 300 HP, turbo ,DSG gearbox,LSD

gets killed by 4 sec's per lap by a 260 HP WTCC Seat Leon (NA,Hewland dogclutch, LSD) on the same track mass is around same , same driver, same racetrack.

im brainstorming of installing a K20 engine, thats 200KG with 6 speed transmission , 240 HP , long lasting engine, 200k+ atleast.

http://www.clockwisemotion.co.uk/
this guy usualy buys all wrecked S2000's in UK since you cant buy a crate engine. if i remember right, engines where around 4000 euros.

as you brought up ebay, there was one lamborghini diablo V12 engine for sale couple of months ago 12000 euros, 500 hp in the box [:D][:D][:D][:D]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Thanks for the coments. Not really keen on any 4 pot option it just not what I want. I used to have a Nissan 200SX and as good as it was suh an engine, regardless of hp would feel like a downgrade from a torquey great sounding V8.

Same with the Honda unit. It would be a heck of a lot of work for only 20hp. I do understands it weighs less but the cost would be prohibative IMO. I'm not out to make a race car and would accept slightly less capable but more fun and a bigger grin factor.

And besides I raced a DC5 a few months back. They were quicker but not by much.

Marko · Postby **Marko** » 21 Oct 2009 10:05

V8 it is,

what are the limits of stock 3.5 rover V8?

revs (conrod failure or valvetrain)
main bearings?
distorsion of the block?
head gasket?

300bhpton · Postby **300bhpton** » 21 Oct 2009 10:53

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Marko

V8 it is,

what are the limits of stock 3.5 rover V8?

revs (conrod failure or valvetrain)
main bearings?
distorsion of the block?
head gasket?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I suppose they way I look at it. The limits are displacment, cost and limited specific output of the old Rover lump.

It's not that I think it's a bad engine and it's a cheap way to 200hp but I'm not sure it's cost affective to mod much further.

Irrc the Group 44 race car used to only make 360hp from 4 litres n/a that's only 90bhp/litre specific output from a very expensive race engine on high octane race fuel and a very pricey bottom end allowing high revs.

I'm sure with some expensive heads, wilder cam, pricey intake and maybe a cr
increase with EFI I'd see a decent hike in power but it'd cost a fortune and still not make anywhere near the hp of a stock ls1

Troy ODoherty · Postby **Troy ODoherty** » 21 Oct 2009 11:33

What about a Lexus V8.All Alloy, Quad cam 4 valves per cylinder and becoming popular with the ski boat guys. Reportedly the bottom end is safe for 900 hp standard.
As for transmissions I am using a Tremec TKO 600. They are rated at 600ftlbs of input torque. They have a 3 rail shifter system and stand up to the shock loads of gravel rallying.Retail for $3500 in Aus and weigh the same as the LT77.
I am also using the Volvo axle. These are actually a Dana 30. Parts are cheap and readily available. Lots of ratios especially lower stuff, and cheap LSDs from Detroit/Eaton.
Cheers Troy

300bhpton · Postby **300bhpton** » 21 Oct 2009 11:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Troy ODoherty

What about a Lexus V8.All Alloy, Quad cam 4 valves per cylinder and becoming popular with the ski boat guys. Reportedly the bottom end is safe for 900 hp standard.
As for transmissions I am using a Tremec TKO 600. They are rated at 600ftlbs of input torque. They have a 3 rail shifter system and stand up to the shock loads of gravel rallying.Retail for $3500 in Aus and weigh the same as the LT77.
I am also using the Volvo axle. These are actually a Dana 30. Parts are cheap and readily available. Lots of ratios especially lower stuff, and cheap LSDs from Detroit/Eaton.
Cheers Troy
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I had thought about these as I once read about someone using them in a Cobra kit car. Don't know much about them. How easy is it to get 300hp from them? iirc they are 250hp stock from 4 litres.

Anonymous

Big HP - tranny, axle & engine swap???

Who is online