Turbocharged

[300bhpton]

Sure this has been covered before, although Google didn't bring up much.

But as I understand it Saab developed the slant 4 and eventually and successfully turbocharged it in the 99 and 900 models?

How similar are these engines to the 2.0 litre in the TR7?? Is it possible to swap one in easily or were too many changes made to it?

If a straight swap isn't on the cards, how feasible is it to use one as the basis to building a TR7 Turbo??


Really just thinking out loud about alternatives to either V8 conversions or 16v highly tuned n/a engines.

I'm sure the Saab turbo unit must have been good for around 200hp without too much hassle.

Cheers.

[Marko]

anything is possible. all you need is money.

Limiting factors are:

No SA EFI = NO TURBO
you can run a turbo on carbs , standard ECU+piggyback, eprom change in the standard ecu, there are lots of workarounds. but in the end you don't have the reliability and the open hands that you have with a SA ECU . ecu has to control spark( distributorless ignition) & fuel

strength of the main bearing casings:
those racing sprint guys say that around 200hp main bearing casings start to crack if they are stock.

my opinion is that that happens because of the high RPM those engines see ( claimed 8k-8.5k rpm), loads on the engine induced by the gases of combustion and inertia forces are around the same around 3k rpm(similar for all 4cyl inline engines), as the rpm increase the inertia loads go up by order of a magnitude( 10x) while the load from the gasses stay the same. those same guys solve the problem with a "ladder", in short you spread the load from each individual main bearing cap to each other and the skirt of the oil sump(rest of the engine). you could get the same effect if you thicken the ribs that hold the main bearing caps but this is much simpler.

other solution is to see what is the actual value of the inertial loads at those rpm and stay below that , in a turbo engine that means less revs , more boost = same HP .

you need to build the exhaust and intake manifolds. solve all of the piping.

and the last big problem is heat, for every 1 hp of power you waste equivalent of 3hp in heat. the standard cooling is barely coping with a stock 105 hp .

stock 105hp at the flywheel 315hp of heat wasted

turbo 200hp at the flywheel 600hp of heat wasted

you get the picture. oil cooling, increasing the capacity of oil, larger radiator.

and the cooling of pistons, all of the engines with turbo that been built from the start as turbo engines have oil jets in the crankcase squirting oil on the lower side of pistons for cooling.


this is only a rough estimate.

it would be cheaper to swap the engine for some factory built modern turbo engine just because of all of the modifications necessary on the engine itself, its easier just to build engine mounts for the engine you want to swap inside. you can get a Nissan sr18det for peanuts, Mitsubishi has great turbo engines, the bonus is if you get some front engined rwd turbo engine , you have the gearbox as well.

[frankman]

<font color="green">@ 300bhpton</font id="green">

<font color="green">"I'm sure the Saab turbo unit must have been good for around 200hp without too much hassle"</font id="green">


It is possible .. However, some problems to cope with .. The largest is the adaption of Saab B202 engine to gearbox (LT77) .. But you can also take the B234 / 5 from Year 94 and add a Vauxhall-Opel RWD gearbox Getrag 265 take .. the injection of Saab, you can ECUwith the take over (for the Saab 900 / 1, this ECU harness separately, and the ECU in the foot area)

Best Engine: B202 Saab 9000-92 with DY-ignition or B234/5 from 94 to 98 with Getrag 265 Gearbox.. the others are rubbish

http://sonett7.net/engine/IMG_1769[1].JPG-for-web-LARGE.jpg

The 2 problem is the inlet and a special exhaust (B202) at 234 / 5, you can take the original is in the middle fits well on the B202, but only in conjunction with a righthand vehicle (steering column is in the way on lft)

If you are interessted I have the "dxf-file" both TR7 engine plates and Saab 900/9000 -

[8)] Marko this would be your part (Engineers)

It is very difficult for me because I have received many promises but no one has implemented it - a pity, I think the finished adapter plate would have a lot of joy can prepare Saab engines are almost free to get and very very reliable and durable - and, above all "almost original only some evolution stages next "

But there is of course the whole Japanese turbos like Toyota 'Carlos Sainz' the Nissan's S13, S14, etc. you can go there with the Gearbox ..
Or the Ford Cosworth with the gearbox and T9 and and

I know the correct answer would have been: "write the Saab Turbo, and search"


Hello from Switzerland

Frank

[saabfast]

Janspeed did do a turbo kit for the TR7. A car with it came up on ebay about a year ago but disappeared before I had a chance to bid, presumably a private sale.

Alan
Saab 9000 Stg 1
Saab 9000 2.3 FPT Auto
'81 TR7 DHC

[300bhpton]

Cheers.

I think many of these problems are much smaller ones though.

ECU - easy use Megasquirt and Megaspark or one of the other stand along aftermarket ECU setups.

Exhaust, can't see that being too much hassle. Guess it would depend on a few things. Which block you are using and if the standard Saab manifold will bolt up with enough room. Rest of the exhaust you could fab up.

Same for intake, just use a cone filter and some tubing really.

Cooling shouldn't be an issue. There are guys running 300+ 5.0 litre V8's and keeping them cool. Also the TR engine bay is huge.


I guess two approaches would be:

Use the Saab block compete - how easy could you bolt it in and mount it to the gearbox.

Or could you use the rotating assy from the Saab block and head on the TR7 block?

I know its not a 5 min job. But just wondered how feasible it would actually be why still remaining partly Triumph.

[diver]

300bhpton,
For info on Volvo turbo check out: turbobrick.com
My nephew said most Volvo turbo cars came with auto.
There is a reason that Buick used an auto behind the V6.
Diver

[TR7Aaron]

From what I've read, the stock 2L blows it's head gaskets with some regularity. If you put a massive increase in cylinder pressures from a turbo, you better have re-engineered the head gasket issue first.

Aaron
1976 TR7 FHC (an ongoing project)

[Beans]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Century Gothic, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Marko</i>

anything is possible. all you need is money...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
From an older post ...
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Century Gothic, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">One Wayne Mahnken from "Down Under" grafted a Garrett turbocharger with a single Stromberg 175 onto a racing TR7 way back in '79. Was later converted for roaduse by ProCar Racing with one SU 1¾ inch. Turned out an est. 110 kW (so approx. 147 BHP)
Compression needs to be lowered to 7 : 1. Also needed water injection to prevent the pistons from melting down. Don't know how they solved the lubrication of the turbo<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">


<center>
<font color="blue"><i>1981 TR7 FHC Sprint (better known as 't Kreng)
1981 TR7 DHC (now completely dismantled)
Also a 1980 TR7 DHC, 1980 TR7 DHC FI, 1981 TR7 FHC</font id="blue">
<font color="red">http://tr7beans.blogspot.com/</i></font id="red"></center>

[Marko]

to 300bhpton
i would rather take VEMS instead of megasquirt(its very primitive and crude). for a couple of euros more , you get a airplane compared to a megasquirt that is a bicycle( with blown tires) , vems is in the class with DTA , autronic, even motec , but these ecu-s own their price to 24h customer service.

vems has integrated dataloger that is a good tool to develop the engine maps.


2 beans:

if you add the mass of the intercooler, turbo,water injection, piping to the that tr7

you're pretty much at same mass/hp with a stock tr7 with a fast road cam ( 125-130'ish HP ??? ).
That low compression was used probably because they weren't able/didn't know how to modify the ignition to suite the boost.

any info on what turbocharger (i know its garret but what model) was used and what boost did it run?

but for 1979 that is a respectable result as cars where then more expensive,parts where more expensive, and average joe's knowledge of automotive enginering was at a lower level than today.

[Beans]

In race trim boost was 103 kPa which they dropped for the road to 83 kPa
Only info which is in the road test (Modern Motor Oct 1980) about the turbo is that it is a Normal Air Garrett turbocharger. Conversion was commissioned by the local Leyland execs Down Under due to frustration caused by the continuing non appearance of the TR7 V8.

As for the power, put a Sprint in 140 BHP in standard trim with decent breathing [:D]


<center>
<font color="blue"><i>1981 TR7 FHC Sprint (better known as 't Kreng)
1981 TR7 DHC (now completely dismantled)
Also a 1980 TR7 DHC, 1980 TR7 DHC FI, 1981 TR7 FHC</font id="blue">
<font color="red">http://tr7beans.blogspot.com/</i></font id="red"></center>

[frankman]

.. Hi again .. You can't take parts from the Saab B202 (from 84-93) to the Tr7 .. it is the same Basic but not the same engine .. earlier model Type like B201 it is possible to take Waterpump etc.. The 16V B202 Turbo is a very strong engine and run easy 300'000Km with care.. You can get a lot more then 200Ps out of it !! the problem was always the gearbox on both Saab 900 and 9000 (9K the automatic was a problem) .. so if you put this engine with a strong gearbox together it will be possible to go for 2-300HP and 350-400 Nm Torque ..

The TR7 oilpan bolts strait with the exception of just 3 screws on the Saab engine .. so, the engine mount to the front Frame .. The best engine is the B202 from 9000 that this has on a DY..

http://www.saab4fun.com/blue05.html Here you can see why DY

The original ECU can be Chip-Tuned there are some Tuner around .. The exhaust manifold from the B234 fits on the B202 may be used only for RHD TR7 so it is no Problem only the Intake Manifold has to be changed - but you can cut it off and weld in new ..

The Saab 900 has a stand alone ECU with the APC .. ECU-Box is on the right leg room..

http://forum.savarturbo.se/viewtopic.ph ... c&start=15
[8)] I do not believe that you need a lot of money but a lot of patience and ideas..

http://photos1.hi5.com/0089/537/888/tbTglT537888-02.jpg

http://photos4.hi5.com/0091/255/479/N2XNxT255479-02.jpg

http://photos3.hi5.com/0090/472/734/Rssizv472734-02.jpg

[:D] http://photos4.hi5.com/0088/626/311/1vPYPS626311-02.jpg

Hello from Switzerland

Frank

[Marko]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Century Gothic, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Beans</i>


As for the power, put a Sprint in 140 BHP in standard trim with decent breathing [:D]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

but the sprint conversion costs a lot of money

frankman you seem like a saab guy , do you have a picture of a saab 16v head?

[Rich in Vancouver]

I am very tempted to try an Eaton M45 Supercharger on my 7. With a blower you don't have to worry so much about heat, and it could be installed on the intake side of the engine. It could be fed with a 2"SU or a 1/2 Weber DCOE. Again it wouldn't be a bolt-on deal as a manifold adaptor and pulley system would have to be fabricated. It wouldn't be as extreme as with a turbo but the results would be worthwhile and the power would come on in the rev range that most people drive at.

Rich

1975 TR7 ACL764U

[PeterTR7V8]

Superchargers are way sexier than turbos in my opinion. I looked at putting one on my GT6 2.5L & apart from the fact I couldn't afford it I was totally sold by the idea.


Never say die. At least not while you're still breathing.

[Beans]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Century Gothic, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Marko</i>

...but the sprint conversion costs a lot of money ... <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Depends ...



... payed €350,00 for the complete car, most of which went to a friend who drives a few Dolomites. And I got a complete and fairly good spare Sprint engine [:)]

<center>
<font color="blue"><i>1981 TR7 FHC Sprint (better known as 't Kreng)
1981 TR7 DHC (now completely dismantled)
Also a 1980 TR7 DHC, 1980 TR7 DHC FI, 1981 TR7 FHC</font id="blue">
<font color="red">http://tr7beans.blogspot.com/</i></font id="red"></center>