Anonymous

New Member

Here’s where to discuss anything specific about your standard(ish) car or something that applies to the model in general.
Workshop Help
TRiffic
Posts: 1891
Joined: 27 Feb 2007 23:52
Location: Worldwide

Postby Workshop Help » 19 Mar 2014 11:14

Kind and Gentle Men. This whole issue of a cool engine or a hot engine, temperature-wise, is leading us down an interesting path of discovery.

Perhaps a little review of the basics. Our internal combustion engine is a heat machine, it converts a chemical thermo reaction to mechanical inertia. The more heat it produces the higher the pressure is applied to the mechanical components. But, this range of produced heat must be controlled to limit the heat to certain design parameters as set by the engineers at the factory. For now, we will ignore the emissions factor tho they are not necessarily a universal bad thing.

I am currently experimenting with a 195F degree thermostat and the fully functioning pre-heated intake air system to increase the operating temperature of my engine. The temperature gauge needle now reads just to the right of the center bar of the gauge with a thermostat housing reading of 192F degrees. The intake air temperature reads 102F degrees with the Z-S carburetors showing 85F degrees as taken at on the top of the bell. The spark plugs for #1 and #4 cylinders read 214F degrees. Performance as taken with my patented seat-of-the-pants dynamometer seems to feel a bit crisper.

Here in lies the problem. All we have for sure(?) is the factory stated power outputs, and the track times done in road tests by a car magazine some 35 years ago on new machinery that may have been tweaked by the factory hot rod shop. Unless we all gather together to collectively rent the use of a real dyno, all our suppositions, opinions, war stories, and fantasies are for naught.

Oh, sure, I know in my heart of hearts each of you is telling the truth. But, each or our engines are different in subtle and not so subtle ways. Be it emissions equipped or hot rodded or not in perfect tune or it's raining outside, a correct baseline needs to be set, then modification experiments can be made with records kept of what was done and the measured results.

So, where does this leave us? It means we must fall back on our basic diagnostic tools to get the best results our individual engines can achieve. Tools like a temperature gun, a vacuum gauge, a timing light, carburetor syncro tools, and fuel economy records, these are the devices to help us maintain and possibly improve our cars.

Who knows? Maybe with luck one of us may reach Warp Factor 1 this spring.

Mildred Hargis

FI Spyder
TRemendous
Posts: 8920
Joined: 03 Jul 2006 19:54
Location: Canada

Postby FI Spyder » 19 Mar 2014 12:54

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Century Gothic, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Vino79TR7</i>

Jrvariel48…welcome to the TR7 world on the internet…
Or take the FIVE STAR poster’s advice… believe a TR7 won’t over heat if the vacuum retard doesn’t work… because his [race-car] beetle, that wasn’t equipped with a vacuum advance, drove just fine…all he had to do was keep the rev’s up like a person would on the race track! And claims to get 36 mpg…more if you drive 50 mph…
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The Beetle mentioned was not a race car but a stock Beetle driven mostly in the city for work, (I got a per diem rate for it's use, made a lot of money on that [:p]). It just had a racing distributor.

The TR7 was not a "Canadian" car but a FI Spider (1980) car from Sacramento California (gets pretty hot there). The mileage was for the Spider (not the Beetle) measured from Redding, California to Wilsonville, Oregon (about 1/4 to 1/3 of it mountainous). As Cobber mentioned the mileage is in imperial gallons. It came with the original window sticker showing 20 mpg (us gallons). Back then there was just one figure for a predefine EPA loop which combined city and highway driving. Except for the FI cars (which Canada didn't get except for a few FI TR8's) the Canadian cars were the same as the US Federal cars (as many cars made in the States were sold in Canada and many cars made in Canada were sold in the States) and the same emissions rules applied to import cars as well.

To this very day the only difference are some lighting issues that have to be corrected (matched) if a vehicle under 15 years is imported from US. What we consumers really want to know in Canada is why a car made in Canada costs many thousands of dollars less in the States than it does in Canada.[:(]

36 mpg highway (imperial) have been reported by others here and the 40 mpg is reachable with slower steady speed (50 mph), lower rolling resistance (36 psi because of bad tires on the car so you wanted less flexing). With no vacuum retard the temp gauge is rock steady including one 80F afternoon, going up Vancouver's Oak Street extended hill going from down town sea level to it's high point in stop and go, bumper to bumper, rush hour traffic the toughest test it's going to get in Canada out side of the BC interior which is top part of The Great American Desert.


- - -TR7 Spider - - - 1978 Spitfire- - - - 1976 Spitfire - - 1988 Tercel 4X4 - Kali on Integra - 1991 Integra - Yellow TCT
Image

Stag76
Swagester
Posts: 691
Joined: 22 Jun 2010 04:14
Location: Australia
Contact:

Postby Stag76 » 19 Mar 2014 18:54

A vacuum advance unit trims the ignition timing whenever the manifold pressure changes, advancing it on low pressure, and retarding it on high pressure. This works independently of the advance mechanism operated by the weights and springs, which is based on the speed of the engine. It gives you advance at idle, cruise and overrun, and retard when the throttle is opened. The amount of retard is proportional to the manifold pressure increase, which is related to the rate of throttle opening. If it is not connected, you may get pinking on acceleration due to having too much advance, and the lack of advance at cruising speed may cause the engine to run hotter, but it would have to have a dodgy cooling system to start with, which the TR7 has.

How does a vacuum retard work?

TR7 Convertible
Sprint Motor
MegaSquirt EFI

Workshop Help
TRiffic
Posts: 1891
Joined: 27 Feb 2007 23:52
Location: Worldwide

Postby Workshop Help » 19 Mar 2014 22:57

Whoa! We are all gouging each others sacred cows in this conversation. I'm stepping up to defend the cooling system now.

There is NO weakness or defect in a TR7 cooling system that is in good condition. The radiator alone is more than adequate for a big American V-8 truck. The water pump being driven by an internal gear moves the coolant very efficiently. Once the nylon filler plug on the early thermostat housing was replaced with a metal plug, the popped cork/warped head incidents ceased. If anything, the TR7's with the 180F degree thermostats are operating too cool for best efficiency and are losing about 2-3% of the power compared to a 195F degree thermostat.

As for the vacuum retard unit, it works opposite of an advance unit. The engine vacuum pulls the distributor advance plate back to retard the timing more efficiently than the springs inside the distributor. With your timing light, observe the timing mark with the vacuum hose connected then with the hose disconnected and your finger over the hose end. The timing with the hose disconnected advances several degrees, which gives a faster idle.

Mildred Hargis

FI Spyder
TRemendous
Posts: 8920
Joined: 03 Jul 2006 19:54
Location: Canada

Postby FI Spyder » 20 Mar 2014 01:37

Under parts throttle or no throttle (high vacuum) the ignition timing was retarded accordingly as that was the way they reduced the emissions (amongst other things like low compression, charcoal cannisters, shooting air into exhaust to burn excess hydrocarbons). FI did away with some of that.

- - -TR7 Spider - - - 1978 Spitfire- - - - 1976 Spitfire - - 1988 Tercel 4X4 - Kali on Integra - 1991 Integra - Yellow TCT
Image

sydney.wedgehead
Wedge Pilot
Posts: 344
Joined: 20 Jan 2012 13:52
Location: Australia
Contact:

Postby sydney.wedgehead » 20 Mar 2014 05:25

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Century Gothic, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by jrvariel48</i>

Hello all,
I'm the new owner of a 1977 TR7.
I got the car from a family friend.
I was told the car ran great when it was taken off the road for a paint job 11 years ago. Well, it never got the paint job!
It hasn't been turned over in all the time.
How should I proceed with this?
Thank you,
Joe<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Joe,

Get it driving first so that have an opportunity to feel some reward for any effort you put into it...

Then start planning your upgrades!

Owen

Vino79TR7
Scuttle Shaker
Posts: 64
Joined: 14 Jul 2006 08:32
Location: USA
Contact:

Postby Vino79TR7 » 20 Mar 2014 15:17

Well said Owen.

-Vino
79TR7
Driven Daily 78 miles

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 33 guests