Anonymous

Triumph TR7 1980 EFI Us Specs.Firing order

Here’s where to discuss anything specific about your standard(ish) car or something that applies to the model in general.
lucr1967
Wedgling
Posts: 16
Joined: 07 May 2014 05:33
Location: Belgium
Contact:

Triumph TR7 1980 EFI Us Specs.Firing order

Postby lucr1967 » 07 May 2014 15:35

Dear TR7 members,

first a short intro, I'm Luc 46 y, living in Belgium and recently aquired a TR7 1980 EFI (US Specs) with a body in absolute mint condition, no rust at all, interior needs cleaning, engine is antoher story. to good to let it sit in the barn where i found it ..

I did some restorations before but this engine is giving me worries.

I reviewed all wires, timings,inlet , all sorted out (previous owner messed with it) ,yesterday while attempting to start i had a lot of backfiring but no start, reviewed plugs, all in order..after using some start pilot it went around few times ,and then ..boom.. backfire trough inlet causing the start pilot to ignite.. so i'm baffeld now..
searched the forum, the net ,looked at other eniges for their firing order.. but still totally in the dark now

help welcome...

i will add some pictures later

best regards,
Luc

Hasbeen
TRemendous
Posts: 6474
Joined: 28 Apr 2005 12:32
Location: Australia
Contact:

Postby Hasbeen » 07 May 2014 16:23

Hi LUC, & welcome to the forum. That firing order is 1,3,4,2.

I have had backfiring through the carbs with 2 7s that had sat for a while. One had sat because the PO had adjusted his own tappets, & got his math wrong.

He had one inlet & one exhaust valves riding. The thing would start & sort of run, backfiring through the carb often. He had put it away discouraged, which meant it was a cheap buy a couple of years later.

Once the valve clearance was corrected the rest was easy.

The other one was harder. It has sat for 3 or 4 years. It would run a bit, shaking like a freezing dog. When I checked the valve clearances no 2 inlet was 46 thou, [should be 8] & some others were only 2 or 3 thou.

I shimmed them to 8 inlet 18 exhaust, the thing was running a bit better, still backfiring through the front carb. The compression test was quite low, so I added some STP oil treatment to the oil, as this frees up sticking piston rings, & cleans carbon out of cylinders & off valves.

I have a private track on my property, & I gave it a bit of thrashing around it, which improved it somewhat.

I still could not get it to idle, & it was still backfiring. I checked the valve clearances again, & found No2 inlet riding.

I ultimately worked out the No2 inlet valve had been actually sticking open, at least at low revs, due either to rust or carbon on the valve stem. My shimming had held it off the seat.

My running had cleaned this off, & once shimmed correctly, the thing started to run quite well. With the STP & some running the compression came up from less than 100 PSI to around 150 PSI.

I would suggest you look at valve clearances, valve & ignition timing, add some STP to the oil, & hope someone with injection experience comes in with suggestions.

After more remedial work, that engine performed very well for about another 70,000 kilometer. So don't despair, with a bit of luck, yours will too, once sorted.

Hasbeen

Beans
TRemendous
Posts: 7822
Joined: 15 Mar 2006 19:29
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Postby Beans » 07 May 2014 16:30

First check the distributor is fitted correctly.
With number 1 piston at TDC the rotor should be pointing at the rear mounting bolt from the inlet manifold.
Fit dizzy cap and insert number 1 plug lead "on top" of the rotor.
Work from there counter clock wise 1-3-4-2.

And welcome, where in Belgium are you situated [:)]

<center>Image
<font color="blue"><i>1976 TR7 FHC (needs some TLC ...)
1980 TR7 DHC (my first car, a.k.a. Kermette)
1981 TR7 FHC (Sprint engined a.k.a. 't Kreng
</font id="blue"><b>[url="http://www.tr7beans.blogspot.com/"]<u><b><font size="3"><font color="red">My full Blog</font id="red"></font id="size3"></b></u>[/url]</b></i></center>

lucr1967
Wedgling
Posts: 16
Joined: 07 May 2014 05:33
Location: Belgium
Contact:

Postby lucr1967 » 07 May 2014 18:44

thanks for the swift reply's ,


@hasbeen, i did not check the valves yet as the previous owner claimed it was running, the dizzy however seemed like they fiddled with it

@beans ,the firing order looks correct to me , altough it is hard to find some imgages as reference, ps, i'm from Antwerp/wommelgem

please find my wiring below.

Image

saabfast
TRiffic
Posts: 1936
Joined: 03 Feb 2006 08:17
Location: Bexhill-on-Sea

Postby saabfast » 07 May 2014 19:16

That looks as if No 1 is wrong (and therefore the rest). Follow the notes above and check the rotor is pointing at the rear inlet manifold bolt, and plug the No 1 lead in at that point.

Alan
Saab 9000 Stg 1 (now passed to son for his family car)
Saab 9000 2.3 FPT Auto (now gone that others might live)
Saab 9000 2.3 LPT Auto (sold on, wish I had it back)
Saab 9-5 2.3 Vector Auto Estate
'81 TR7 DHC
Image

lucr1967
Wedgling
Posts: 16
Joined: 07 May 2014 05:33
Location: Belgium
Contact:

Postby lucr1967 » 07 May 2014 20:09

Thanks SaabFast,

it makes sense to wire the first plug to where the rotor is pointing at TDC (rotor is pointing to the last bolt as mentioned) , as i did not find it in the manuals I have, I surfed the net for 'engine images' they almost all start at the 'bottom right ' as mentioned in the picture below .

Image

now i'm a bit confused :)

regs,
Luc

saabfast
TRiffic
Posts: 1936
Joined: 03 Feb 2006 08:17
Location: Bexhill-on-Sea

Postby saabfast » 07 May 2014 22:09

That is diagrammatic, you need to check where the rotor is with the piston at TDC on the firing stroke. In the case of the TR7 it is when the rotor points to the rear inlet manifold bolt (assuming the dizzy is correctly installed).
If you need a manual check out the links at the bottom of jclay's posts. There is also a lot of useful information on his site.

Alan
Saab 9000 Stg 1 (now passed to son for his family car)
Saab 9000 2.3 FPT Auto (now gone that others might live)
Saab 9000 2.3 LPT Auto (sold on, wish I had it back)
Saab 9-5 2.3 Vector Auto Estate
'81 TR7 DHC
Image

FI Spyder
TRemendous
Posts: 8920
Joined: 03 Jul 2006 19:54
Location: Canada

Postby FI Spyder » 08 May 2014 00:10

Your firing order is correct and if the rotor is pointing to #1 (intake bolt) at TDC all that should be OK. Make sure it is TDC on the compression stroke as it is with the timing mark on cam lining up. You should take off valve cover to check clearances anyway. I never had any backfiring, just no starting, when I had 3 and 4 wires backwards when changing spark plugs this spring (numpty [B)]). And failure to start when aux air hose was left off by accident when I was early in the owners cycle. Just in case go to work shop section and peruse the hard start/not start for FI engines section I started. Because I never had any backfiring I would go through Hasbeen's check list as that's the only thing I've not done yet and I suspect the backfiring might well emanate from there.

- - -TR7 Spider - - - 1978 Spitfire- - - - 1976 Spitfire - - 1988 Tercel 4X4 - Kali on Integra - 1991 Integra - Yellow TCT
Image

trekcarbonboy
Swagester
Posts: 940
Joined: 18 Oct 2010 15:38
Location: USA

Postby trekcarbonboy » 08 May 2014 01:36

Alan is correct. Each wire on the dizzy needs to be moved 1 spot clockwise.

Craig '75 2.0 FHC
ImageImage

Stag76
Swagester
Posts: 691
Joined: 22 Jun 2010 04:14
Location: Australia
Contact:

Postby Stag76 » 08 May 2014 03:04

It all depends on how the distributor is phased.

The rotor must point to the tower that is connected to Plug No. 1 when the camshaft mark lines up with the mark on the bearing cap and the TDC Mark on the pulley lines up with the pointer. Pointing to the rear manifold bolt is just a guideline...it can point anywhere so long as the tower it points to is connected to No. 1 Plug, and the leads are connected to 3,4,2 plugs ANTI-Clockwise starting from No 1.

This is the camshaft lineup, albeit on a Sprint motor, but the principle is the same.

Image

TR7 Convertible
Sprint Motor
MegaSquirt EFI

saabfast
TRiffic
Posts: 1936
Joined: 03 Feb 2006 08:17
Location: Bexhill-on-Sea

Postby saabfast » 08 May 2014 19:15

...which is why I caveated the response re the dizzy installation. If it has the (normal) setup with the rotor pointing at the manifold bolt the leads, while in the right order, are one position out. Needs checking with the rotor/cam position to confirm.

Alan
Saab 9000 Stg 1 (now passed to son for his family car)
Saab 9000 2.3 FPT Auto (now gone that others might live)
Saab 9000 2.3 LPT Auto (sold on, wish I had it back)
Saab 9-5 2.3 Vector Auto Estate
'81 TR7 DHC
Image

FI Spyder
TRemendous
Posts: 8920
Joined: 03 Jul 2006 19:54
Location: Canada

Postby FI Spyder » 08 May 2014 23:14

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Century Gothic, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by saabfast</i>

...which is why I caveated the response re the dizzy installation. If it has the (normal) setup with the rotor pointing at the manifold bolt the leads, while in the right order, are one position out. Needs checking with the rotor/cam position to confirm.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I don't get it. It looks the exact way my spark plug wires are, which are in the correct position.

Ann aside: note the two wire clip (which is usually missing) which is the correct way the wires should be mounted (I used a 4 wire clip to help position the coil wire for now). I got the two wire clip from Yellow TCT which still has the original factory green wires and have ordered another one. The wires are a little longer than originals. I'm ordering a new set so will see how they are.

Image



- - -TR7 Spider - - - 1978 Spitfire- - - - 1976 Spitfire - - 1988 Tercel 4X4 - Kali on Integra - 1991 Integra - Yellow TCT
Image

lucr1967
Wedgling
Posts: 16
Joined: 07 May 2014 05:33
Location: Belgium
Contact:

Postby lucr1967 » 09 May 2014 19:35

Thanks all for the kind and vey informative reply's .

Today I inspected the engine by fro damage by the fire occured from the start-pilot and the backfire trough the inlet. No serious damage other than the duct between the filter and the regulator that is blown wide open, tomorrow i'll replace that.

I also scouted trough the shop manual, the position of the rotator is always referred towards the last bolt and mentioned several times as 'cylinder 1' position .. so i'm really confused but will give it a try tomorrow.

Other pictures of the engine on the net also show the 'nr1' beeing positioned as i did .. ,i only found one having the position as in the manual .. bizar :)

I'll bring an update tomorrow :) , crossing my fngers as this is the last step before preparation for MOT.

(altough MOT is a big word in Belgium , oldtimers benefit from simplified MOT since 2013 ..meaning , steering, brakes, fire extinguisher and hazard triangle,only downside, if you can call it that... no professional use or comutting use..and the license plate start with 'O' from oldtimer :)



Best Regards,
Luc

lucr1967
Wedgling
Posts: 16
Joined: 07 May 2014 05:33
Location: Belgium
Contact:

Postby lucr1967 » 12 May 2014 06:07

Hi Fellow TR7 owners and forum members,

This weekend the weather was very bad (rain, rain, rain) so i could not work much on the TR7 .

I did however scouted around some local shops for a replacement tube between the Filter and the intake valve (the long tube running down and back up ) since this was blown by the sart pilot and the backfire (trough inlet)

Does anybody know or own a good replacement ,or can someone tell me the name/part number for ordering as this is not to be found in the manuals i own.

best regards,
Luc

FI Spyder
TRemendous
Posts: 8920
Joined: 03 Jul 2006 19:54
Location: Canada

Postby FI Spyder » 12 May 2014 13:07

FI stuff is hard to find from UK sources as FI was a US thing with a very few optionally sold in Canada. The intake hoses are no longer available. Mine were working fine so I just reinforced them with black duct tape and white cord reinforcing it as per original. If yours is not repairable, others have use a silicone hose.

http://www.forum.triumphtr7.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10034&SearchTerms=silicone,hose

Pictures of my renewed hose.

Image



- - -TR7 Spider - - - 1978 Spitfire- - - - 1976 Spitfire - - 1988 Tercel 4X4 - Kali on Integra - 1991 Integra - Yellow TCT
Image

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 30 guests