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What thermostat to use downunder?

Posted: 22 Feb 2014 09:58
by scotty
Hi all.
I have a standard 2.0 TR7 coupe & am in South Australia.
I noticed the temperature takes a long time to rise from cold and sits very low on the gauge, so I'm thinking that the thermostat might have been removed.
Any recommendations for what temperature thermostat I should fit in my part of the world? We'll be heading for winter soon & I'll want to use the heater.
Thanks
Scotty.

1978 TR7
1981 XJS
1976 MGB

Posted: 22 Feb 2014 12:18
by Workshop Help
The more favored thermostat is the 180F variant. What this 'F' translates to in 'C', you'll have to look up.

As to cooling systems, it is always best to examine the entire system as a whole unit. When one part fails, the cause may be another element. For example, if the radiator starts to leak, the thermostat may be malfunctioning. I suggest for your peace of mind, replace as many components as possible at one time in a general system overhaul.

Mildred Hargis

Posted: 22 Feb 2014 13:35
by Beans
I'd use the later 88°C thermostat.

As for the temperature gauge this is what an avarage gauge should read with the engine on temperature ...

Image

I start worrying when it goes over the half way mark.

And bear in mind these cars need much longer to get on temperature compared to modern cars.
So might well be you don't have a problem at all.

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Posted: 22 Feb 2014 13:45
by FI Spyder
I would tend to think the thermostat is not removed as if it was there would be no foot to block of the bypass there by only 50% of the coolant would ever be directed to the radiator thereby running hotter not cooler. This is counter intuitive to most cooling systems that don't have this feature, ie. my Integra when my thermostat failed and the integral spring kept it open (like it was removed)the temp gauge barely moved and I could get zero heat out of the heater, it's cooling so efficient (it was winter = +7C).

As far as the gauge taking a long time to move or read low that may not be a function of coolant temperature (only an infra red thermometer tells that) but a function of temp sensor/wiring and it's connectors corrosion/gauge reading low for a given voltage issue.

The temp of thermostat has nothing to do with the temp that the coolant runs at, it has to do with the temp the valve opens. One puts a "hotter" thermostat in in colder climes so that the coolant circulating in the engine runs hotter before being directed to the radiator so that you can get hotter air, sooner from the radiator so you can defrost the windshield, warm the interior, besides warming the oil in the engine sooner etc. important when operating at -20 degrees etc.

Hotter and cooler thermostats are fully open at normal operating temperatures and pass the same amount of coolant through the system so the operating temperature is not affected by having a having a "hotter" or "cooler" thermostat, contrary to popular belief which states "I have a cooler thermostat so my system must be running cooler". The temperature of coolant on our system is dependent on the thermostat having the "Triumph foot" so when they are open they will block off the bypass and direct all the coolant through the rad, The condition of the rad (not corroded up or blocked so there is good heat transfer), the coolant passageways in the block are not corroded or blocked so you get good heat transfer from block heat to coolant, a working water pump (very rare but possible vane pressed on shaft loose, it happened to Hasbeen). If these aren't optimal you can put a band aid on by adding a water wetter to get a temp drop. On course not enough coolant due to a leak in the system will also cause temps to rise to the point of a warped head.

While most struggle with hot temps, you are struggling with cool temps in a warmer clime I would suspect an incorrectly reading and nothing may actually be wrong with the cooling system. Infra red thermometers are cheap these days so I would check this out first as you can borrow, rent or buy one before chasing the rabbit down the garden path.

- - -TR7 Spider - - - 1978 Spitfire- - - - 1976 Spitfire - - 1988 Tercel 4X4 - Kali on Integra - 1991 Integra - Yellow TCT
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Posted: 22 Feb 2014 14:04
by Hasbeen
Scotty I suggest you should buy an infrared temperature gauge. It is only with one of these you will really know what your engine is running at. You can get them at Supercheap Auto parts stores for about $20.

My 7 with air conditioning running in Queensland summer, rarely gets above 1/4 on the gauge, but that is about 88C at the thermostat housing. My last 7 would be just above 1/2 on the gauge at the same temperature

I had to fit a hotter thermostat to my 7 a couple of winters back, as it was only getting to 70C at the thermostat & stuff all on the gauge.

Don't forget the 7 thermostat is not the ordinary beast. The Triumph one has a foot on the thing, that closes the bypass passage when it opens. With the wrong unit, [or no thermostat fitted] water doesn't circulate through the engine, causing the back of the engine to get much hotter than the gauge shows.

With the temperatures you have been having down there this year, I'm surprised anything can run cool. The last time I raced at Mallala the bitumen was melting. I'm surprised the whole place has not melted this year.

Hasbeen

Posted: 22 Feb 2014 23:39
by FI Spyder
The thermostat should look like this.

Image



- - -TR7 Spider - - - 1978 Spitfire- - - - 1976 Spitfire - - 1988 Tercel 4X4 - Kali on Integra - 1991 Integra - Yellow TCT
Image

Posted: 23 Feb 2014 07:21
by john 215
Hi,

As others have said ' our ' cars will not heat up like a modern car, the technology have moved on hugely over the years driven by emission demands. Be more worried if it keeps getting hot [xx(] Mine sits the same as my learned friends Theo's approx. 1/4 on the gauge.

NEVER run our car's without a thermostat, goes for most cars, you need a restriction in the system to force coolant to the rear of the cylinder head. Water being lazy it will just run around the front couple of cylinders, causing hot spots at the rear. Even race engines will normally run restriction plates where a stat would live for this reason.

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detai ... &ppt=C0095

Don't be tempted to fit the incorrect stat as shown in the picture, the plate on the bottom control the by pass passage.

Cheers John

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Posted: 24 Feb 2014 06:37
by scotty
Guys thank you to everyone that replied.
I wasn't aware that the 2 litre thermostat was not a standard one, thanks to F1 Spyder for the picture.
Beans, that's exactly where I would expect the needle to sit. BTW that wheel looks great.
The whole cooling system will be getting flushed inspected and refurbished as necessary.
Has been, thanks for the tip about the thermometer, it will determine whether it is a mis reading gauge or not.
Mallala is a place I knew very well in the 80s & early 90s. Lots of fond memories.


Scotty, South Australia.
1978 TR7 2.0 LT77
1981 XJS

Posted: 24 Feb 2014 08:00
by trickyx12000
hi. I also live in SA. and have had problems with the temp gauge, to the point that I would only use it as a guide. I'm running a big V8, so have been a bit worried about the temp gauge.
I lucky in the fact that I have a thermo switch at the top of my radiator, which I have set up to bring the not used oxygen sensor light on and the high speed twin cooling fans. so with both I would have a better idea of any over heating...
I would confirm your running temp by using Mr Hasbeen thermo gauge first and check the correct thermo stat.. etc.. you could fit a extra gauge or switch into your top hose if you want a extra warning.

when my car was still in the UK I fitted the lower opening thermostat.. and drilled a couple of holes in it, but have since found this not needed as at times here in oz the engine temp on the gauge has dipped below the normal.

I have also tested a couple of different senders... one is the same for both 4 cylinder and v8. and one for a air con v8. I noted that the air con one was slower to change its resistance reads than the standard 4 and 8 version.
so having fitted the standard one... I removed the covers on the clocks and fitted a 20 ohm resistor (jaycar) in line with the temp sender and the temp sender wire. and moved the needle on the temp gauge till it read just under the fourth mark.
this now gives me the reading of just over the first mark .... normal running and just under the second mark, (half way) when the fans cut in.
there is some more info that I used .. http://www.team.net/TR8/tr8cca/wedgelab ... sender.htb

beware that the gauge works on resistance..... so if you have a bad connection it will effect your temp reading

Posted: 24 Feb 2014 10:09
by Sautie
Hi Wedgista and Rusthunter you may have solved my 8's problem.
Here in SA it is regular in Summer to get ambiant temps in the high 30"s C.
For years my 8 ran at just over 1/4 on the temp gauge with fans cutting in at the 1/2 mark. Now for the last 6 months it wants to run at the 1/2 mark. Hence my questions.
1. What is the part number or numbers for the Thermostat for the Triumph.
2. What are the correct gauge settings. Mine is set at 50 going to 140 so that at half way it is 95. The fans still come in at 1/2 way.
Thanks

Posted: 25 Feb 2014 22:15
by Hasbeen
The 8 just uses the Rover thermostat, but there are a number of them.

I'd talk to Triumph Rover Spares if in doubt, down there.

Hasbeen