tr7triumph.com

What started out as a relatively simple job has left me probably looking at getting a replacement engine. Im not sure how it happened, maybe someone can shed some light, but be careful when re-furbing your existing pump and source parts from a reputable supplier.

I had been losing water from the slot on the side of the block so had a problem with the water pump, then it stopped working altogether so we took it out, only problem was actually pulling it out of the hole. Once it was out it was obvious that the rubber seal had gone, so I bought a pump repair kit online and fitted the new parts, bearing, oil and water seals, o ring, gaskets etc.

The pump went back in no problem, put everything back started her up and all seemed fine, no leaks. Left her ticking over for a bit to reach the right temperature. Then took her for a spin up the road, went about 500 yards then suddenly an horrible noise and the engine died. Turned her over and there was a loud 'ratchet' sort of noise as it spun.

The next day I took the pump out and noticed 4 of the gear teeth on the bottom of the shaft were broken. Looked down the hole and sure enough teeth on the shaft also broken, the rest of the pump seems ok, bearing spinning freely. I'm looking at major surgery aren't I, or another engine?

Surgery yes, but pulling and replacing the jackshaft should not be death to the engine. Or, it might be a good time to switch to an electric water pump and leave the jackshaft as is, if you can get all the pieces of the broken teeth out. If you use the Search feature at the top of the forum page you will find several discussions on here about electric water pumps. You have to install blanking plates where the shaft driven pump sits, but they are cheap and look easy to install. I haven't made the transition, but some people like it a lot.


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1980 Pageant Blue DHC with removable hardtop.

A good time to fit a Davies Craig EWP, and then forget about temperature gauges, jack shafts, over-heating, air locks, coolant leaks, thermostats, head gasket replacement and whatever other evils the water pump causes or contributes to. I run one incorporating a controller which turns the fan on when required, and keeps the pump running for a time after stopping. I don't run an engine fan, and the electric fan only comes on after idling in traffic for 10-15 minutes. Details are here :-
http://www.daviescraig.com.au/Electric_ ... tails.aspx

Check EBAY Prices.

A friend in Stratford-Upon-Avon had the water pump fail in the same way as yours in his Stag at motorway speed, resulting in broken cam chains, valves hitting pistons etc...very expensive. He now has the Jack Shaft mounted on a decorative timber stand.

TR7 Convertible
Sprint Motor
MegaSquirt EFI

Note that you do need to keep the remainder of the jackshaft (or replace if it is totally b*****ed) to drive the oil pump and distributor. If you fit an EWP it just would not matter that the water pump teeth were missing.

Alan
Saab 9000 Stg 1
Saab 9000 2.3 FPT Auto (now gone that others might live)
Saab 9000 2.3 LPT Auto
'81 TR7 DHC

Thanks! The EWP seems to be the solution.

I was only thinking of getting a second hand engine as presumably it will cost an arm and a leg to have the engine taken out and pulled apart to replace the jack shaft, or is it easier than that?

Also, how will I know if the rest of the shaft is ok? Is there any way of testing it with the water pump removed? Is it likely that the broken bits of teeth will be in the sump so its just a case of draining the oil and taking the sump off?

I sounds like after you rebuilt the pump, you didn't measure and set the end play properly.

Clay

[url="http://www.jclay.me/"]My Triumph Site[/url], [url="http://www.triumphtechnical.me"]Technical Stuff[/url], [url="https://docs.google.com/folder/d/0B8MWEvqOpX3udEF4SmFQUW9RS09hbU5uNW5Wd0xrUQ/edit"]My Public Folder[/url],

It would require the radiator removed, but a new jackshaft is easier than replacing the camshaft in a pushrod engine. Even if you did go for replacement, it shouldn't be end of the world expensive, & no requirement to remove the engine.

If going for the electric pump, it should only require mucking around with a strong magnet on a stick, & a couple of oil & filter changes in quick succession, to have things purring again.

Hasbeen

The really big question is ????WHY???? did the pump and jackshaft gear teeth sheer off?

Was it because the pump bearing seized?

Was it because of worn teeth on the jackshaft jamming into the teeth on the pump shaft?

Was it because of nefarious sabotage by a disaffected Victoria Secret super model who's phone call you failed to return?

Inquiring minds await the forensic analysis.

Mildred Hargis

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Century Gothic, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Mildred</i>

The really big question is ????WHY???? did the pump and jackshaft gear teeth sheer off?...
Mildred Hargis
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

My guess is Clay nailed it.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Century Gothic, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by jclay</i>

sounds like after you rebuilt the pump, you didn't measure and set the end play properly.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

-Tim
http://www.morSpeedPerformance.com

Always wondered what would happen if you got the gasket thickness size wrong....chew up the housing? chew up the blades? wreck the seal/bearing? Now add this one....break the teeth on the gears....

- - -TR7 Spider - - - 1978 Spitfire- - - - 1976 Spitfire - - 1988 Tercel 4X4 - Kali on Integra - 1991 Integra - Yellow TCT

During my engine rebuild we found the teeth on the pump gear, & those on the jackshaft they run on were very worn. They were down to a sharp point at the top of the gear.

Our Guru advised there were a faulty batch of water pumps, with gears not hardened some time back, & this was the result if you were unlucky enough to have one fitted. This was the reason I had to replace my jackshaft.

They had not broken, but probably would have if asked to drive a nice new tight pump.

It is reassuring that the amount of metal worn off these teeth did no damage that I could find anywhere else in the engine. The oil filter must be doing a superb job.

If you go for the electric pump option, it would probably be worth dropping the sump to clean out any big bits of broken gear, although the strainer on the pump pickup should keep them out of the pump.

Hasbeen

Does anyone know which is the correct electric pump, the 80 litre or 115 and do I have to have the control unit as I don't have an electric fan? Also what do I use to plug the hole where the pump shaft would sit.

The 80 litre will be more than enough.

You can use them without the controller but it won't be as efficient
you could have it switch on by the thermal switch, and a manual over ride switch.
But the whole point of the controller is that it not just turns the pump and/or fans on and off but it also varies the speed of the pump and fans.

One more thing is the heater isn't as effective with an electric water pump as unlike a standard pump it's not running all the time, but if a small auxiliary pump is fitted then the heater is even more effective than standard.

I don't recall who made the pump blanks but I'm sure there was a writeup on it here somewhere.


"Keep calm, relax, focus on the problem & PULL THE BLOODY TRIGGER"

80'Triumph TR7, 73'Land Rover (Ford 351. V8),
'89 Ford Fairlane
'98 MG-F, 69'Ford F250.
76' Ford F100

CC

In a write up on this subject that I saw somewhere the author use what I would say was a boat plug. This is a bolt with a washers and a rubber piece in the middle. Once you tighten it down it fills the viod keeping the oil on one side and the water on the other. Below is just something as a reference.


http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0085PBGQY/ref ... B0085PBGQY

Hope this helps.

Dale
1974 TR6
1977 TR7 FHC

There is reference to the 'plug' and a picture in the thread 'That darn water pump' dated 12 Dec 2010 started by UKPhil. (Sorry, link would not copy for some reason but try a search).
OK, got it I think:

http://www.forum.triumphtr7.com/topic.a ... water+pump


Alan
Saab 9000 Stg 1
Saab 9000 2.3 FPT Auto (now gone that others might live)
Saab 9000 2.3 LPT Auto
'81 TR7 DHC