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What are members views on the pros/cons of the 4 or 5 speed gearboxes? I'm currently looking around for another TR7 and although I tend to favour the later cars it seems that there are more early cars for sale in decent condition.
Problem is all of these early models are fitted with the 4 speed box. I have only ever driven a 5 speed TR7 and the 4 speed cars were always dismissed as inferior. I have no experience of what owning/using a four speed car is like. What do you 4 speeders out there really think of your cars?
My car won't be driven too hard, mainly used for local shows & club events, but I'd like to be able to do reasonable motorway miles when needed ( I have to use the infamous M25).
I know I could convert any car to 5 speed, but that would be expensive and don't really want to bugger up a decent 4 speed car. John's blog on the overdrive conversion is really interesting but may be beyond my mechanical capabilities.
Any views welcome. [:)]

Andy
1981 UK SPEC TR8
[img][IMG]http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr92/REPLIC8-2008/175-1.jpg[/img][/img] [img][IMG]http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr92/REPLIC8-2008/pics005.jpg[/img][/img]

4 speed is inferior on motorways Andy. Other than that they make for lighter, quicker cars more akin to a classic car than the more refined five speeder. More like a Dolomite is I think what I'm saying.

Reliability problems with the 4 speed transmission are largely a thing of the past. If the differential whines get Dave Pearson at Canley Classics to recondition one for you. Mine's hardly made a noise at all since he did mine.

<center><b>[url="http://www.triumphdvd.co.uk"]Triumph TR7 and other car documentaries on DVD here[/url]</b></center>

Well I have only driven 2 four speed cars but both were really enjoyable, gearbox felt good & the cars seemed to bit a bit more lively through the gears compared to my 5 speed, possibly due to lower overall gearing.

As John mentions motorway driving is less relaxing as you are pulling more RPM so that may be a factor for you.

Tony

<font size="1">1981 TR7 FHC Cavalry Blue
1980 TR7V8 DHC Jaguar Regency Red - sadly sold!
1977 TR8 FHC EFI Factory development car Inca Yellow</font id="size1">

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Century Gothic, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by REPLIC8</i>

<font size="3">What are members views on the pros/cons of the 4 or 5 speed gearboxes? ...</font id="size3">
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I'm partial to a 6

Don
Stick a Wedge In It
80 TR7 V8 Kick in the pants

Here's another recycled topic of conversation. That's okay.

As one who has lived with both gearboxes, the four speed has a slow 1st to 2nd gear synchro. It is far too easy outshift the gears resulting in a gaunch until the synchro catches up. First gear is too high, second gear is a bit too low, third is okay, while fourth, being direct gear, spins 3275 RPM at 60 MPH, which is a bit frantic.

On the plus side, this gearbox does not have an oil pump like the LT77. It uses the traditional splash method of gear lubrication and, as such, lasts forever provided the hot young driver doesn't jam into second gear trying to drag race with Datsun 240's on the Friday night he got the car from his parents as a graduation gift, with the resultant internal explosion as it disintegrates.

Yes, the four speed is about 20 lbs lighter than the LT77. But, that extra weight of the five speed is placed in the best location on the car, right in the center of gravity.

The virtues of the LT77 are a proper gearing spread thru 4th gear, which is direct drive. That wonderful 5th gear overdrive lowers cruising RPM to either .83:1 or .77:1. The negative aspect of the LT77 is the effects of normally occurring metal shavings, called swarf, on the fiber gears of the internal oil pump, and the factories original specification of gear oil. Both of these issues have been solved, thanks to us here on the forum.

The swarf issue is dealt with by regular and frequent flushings of the gearbox and cleaning the magnetic drain plug. This minimizes the collection of swarf around the oil pump intake nozzle. Then, the lubricant is replaced with Pennzoil MTF in the yellow bottle.

Other minor chores for the LT77 are considered maintenance issues such as the deteriorated exterior gear change housing bushes and the replacement of the rear extension main shaft bearing with one that has a shield on the back side to prevent dirt and grit from entering past the oil seal. This rear bearing is the one most subject to replacement and creates a grinding whine when damaged.

The final issue with gearing lies in the differential. The four speed uses the 3.63:1 ratio. This is a very good all around ratio. It provides the virtue of both acceleration and reasonable fuel economy for our four cylinder engines. The factory five speed differentials originally were the 3.90:1 ratio but then changed towards the end to 3.45:1. Those with the 3.45:1 ratio are indeed blessed as the 3.90:1 ratio wastes the advantages of the LT77 gearing spread.

In conclusion, the four speed box may have it's adherents, but this soul lived with it on a daily basis for some 30 years and 125,000 miles. Looking back, it's hard to believe I waited so long to make the conversion to the LT77.

Mildred Hargis

It is possible to get an early five speed car,such as my 1976 coupe in British racing Green. I do prefer the early cars,but if I was in the market for a TR7 coupe and had the chance of buying a car such as Tony's stunning original Solihull coupe,I'd buy it. I think we've got a bit bogged down lately about which factory a particular car comes from,they're all TR7's at the end of the day. In answer to the question five speed or four speed, for practicality I'd go for the five speed,for the fun factor I'd have the four speed car everyday of the week.



In the foreground Tony's lovely late coupe with my early five speeder lurking in the background.

Roy

Hi,

Great picture Roy, or Michelle [;)], with you on the what came from where and when thing.

Andy,
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Century Gothic, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><font color="red">John's blog on the overdrive conversion is really interesting but may be beyond my mechanical capabilities.
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Have to start commissions [:p] As you say if using on motorway can be a high reving but round town has great ratio's. I wouldnt let lack of the 5th gear stop me buy the right car.

Cheers John


LIVE LIFE A QUARTER OF A MILE AT A TIME!

1976 Speke FHC Beauty

1979 3.5 FHC(STATUS PENDING!!)

1982 2.0 DHC NOW A 4.6, BUILT NOT BROUGHT !!!!

Roy,
I quite agree about the different factory thing, I do like the later ones best but the main thing putting me off the early cars is the 4 speed gearbox. I think I'd regret it every time I went on the motorway. I certainly wouldn't pass on a Speke car if it had a 5 speed box, as I said they seem to have survived better than most of the later cars. Ironic really as they were maligned as the worst built of the bunch.
My search continues, I'm quite jealous of the 2 stunning cars in your photo!! [:)]

Andy
1981 UK SPEC TR8
[img][IMG]http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr92/REPLIC8-2008/175-1.jpg[/img][/img] [img][IMG]http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr92/REPLIC8-2008/pics005.jpg[/img][/img]

Ah yes, one of Michelle's great shots. That was taken a few months ago after I had been to visit Roy & Michelle, we went down the road from his house & parked in a quiet New Forest lane for some pics.

Actually an interesting shot as it features one of the earliest RHD 5 speed coupes (not a conversion from 4 speed), with one of the last.

Sorry Andy, wandered a bit off topic there[:)]

Tony

<font size="1">1981 TR7 FHC Cavalry Blue
1980 TR7V8 DHC Jaguar Regency Red - sadly sold!
1977 TR8 FHC EFI Factory development car Inca Yellow</font id="size1">

Its condition that counts, not where it was built. My favourite car, 1980 Canley built Pageant blue FHC with sunroof, alloys, front spoiler and 5 speed gearbox.

www.triumphtrs.co.uk
THE Coca Cola car
The C+C Conversions rally car JDG 941V
TR7 Sprint SJW 530S on the road for the 1st time since 1984
TR7 Sprint SJW 539S

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Century Gothic, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Mildred</i>



lasts forever provided the hot young driver doesn't jam into second gear trying to drag race with Datsun 240's on the Friday night he got the car from his parents as a graduation gift, with the resultant internal explosion as it disintegrates.
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Mildred when you say this it sounds a bit like it might've been drawn from the well of personal experience!

<font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS">C'mon......fess up! [:D]</font id="Comic Sans MS"></font id="size2">



"Keep calm, relax, focus on the problem & PULL THE BLOODY TRIGGER"

80'Triumph TR7, 73'Land Rover (Ford 351. V8),
'89 Ford Fairlane
'98 MG-F, 69'Ford F250.
76' Ford F100

Now, Cobber, sweetie! You know very well that all of us have a past. A time for experiencing the richness of life in all it's primal aspects. A vital time in ones life when the memories are made that will help us sleep when the weight of the years sags our drooping eyelids.

Yes, my friend, it was that brash teenage, newly graduated Abner in 1977. I was there in the passenger seat being given a ride in the new car.

After the dust settled, his parents dumped him back into the 14 year old Ford Falcon and sold me the TR7 with 23 miles on the odometer with its new replacement gearbox. As I had been with them to buy the car originally, I still got to experience that new car smell, along with the occasional whiff of Castrol gear oil from the underside.

The insult to the injury was Triumph refused to fix the car under warranty!

So there, another nasty little family secret exposed.

Mildred Hargis

I seem to recall that the early cars used thicker steel (different pressings) so they really should last long than later cars - however, re sale and restoration costs will always see the first cars scrapped first.

As for 4-speed/5-speed, I have 2 of each and axle ratio also counts. I have no issue with using my 4-speeds every week but find the 5-speed more relaxing.

However, the 4-speed is definitely nippy as I think the overall weight difference of the gearbox, axle & propshaft is significant.

4-speed and overdrive would be my choice on an early standard car.

Cheers Paul,

1976 TR7 FHC (ACG 3115) - Java Green
1976 TR7 FHC (ACG 2367) - Carmine Red
1980 TR7V8 3.9 DHC - Orient Blue
1977 TR7V8 3.9 FHC rally car (ACG 35005) - Tahiti Blue

www.TR7.co.uk