Triumph TR7 1980 EFI Us Specs.Firing order

[lucr1967]

I ordered a new tube (from uk)as per the links provided above.. (I blew up mine due to backifre/inlet and staert pilot) , tube is 80cm/70mm/2ply , excellent service, 2 days delivery to Belgium and only 26€ (including shipment)
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details of the order (for helping others)
Flexible RED Hot & Cold /Warm Air Ducting Car Engine Brake Feed Intake Pipe - GBP 34,38 (see ebay)
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so, now that that is fixed.. on to the timing again:
I removed the valve cover.
turned untill the markings where aligend.
put back the distributor and dizzy
starting with spark 1 to where the rotor point to the last bolt
going CCW (turning direction of the dizzy) so 1 - 3 - 4 - 2

attempts to start .. it goes around quitte easy , sometimes feeling like .. yes.. it's starting .. but no vail.. it does not..

sometimes it feels like the ignition comes to early and stops the piston from rising ..in my idea.. i have sparks

adjusting the distributor did not solve it either .. must say , i do not own a strobe lamp (yet) ..

I do have a light gasoline smell..

any other ideas for testing are welcome ..

regs,
Luc

[FI Spyder]

If you have an FI that won't start, go to the Workshop Manual section where I have a FI won't start/hard start section were this is discussed. It could be some thing as simple as the extra air hose off (or leaking) or something a little more costly as a defunct cold start injector or extra air valve not working. One time when initially assembling the intake stuff I forgot and left the extra air hose off and it wouldn't start. On initial perusal I saw the hose off the extra air valve. Put it on and it started right up. The extra air valve has a taper to it so I made some perpendicular hash marks on it to give the hose something to grab onto when the clamp it tightened. Never had an issue after.

- - -TR7 Spider - - - 1978 Spitfire- - - - 1976 Spitfire - - 1988 Tercel 4X4 - Kali on Integra - 1991 Integra - Yellow TCT

[lucr1967]

FI spyder,

I followed your posting , try to figure it all out, in my opinion all is correct.

I do however:

-dont have a clou how this choke solenoid should work, it's not doing anything now, I tested it by putting 12v on it, it only holds the valve open, not pushing it open..

-what is that little microswitch close to the solenoid (dash choke light? )

-when i wire the sparks as in your picture it start backfiring again , when doing it per the manual, (1spark on dizzy close to last bolt,then 3 4 2 CCW) the engine goes around 'normal' but seems to get sparks firing at wrong time causing the start run to stall..sorry for asking so much but it's puzzle..which i'm hoping to solve soon ..

cheers,
Luc

[FI Spyder]

I'm not sure of your terminology. There is no choke solenoid. Nowhere in the Bosch literature is the choke terminology used. There is a cold start valve (Bosch terminology) or otherwise known as a cold start injector that injects extra gas into the intake when the thermotime sensor tells the ECU the engine is cold. This injection happens when the engine is started and for a few seconds after (the length of time which depends on engine temperature determined by the thermotime sensor). The Auxiliary Air device is open upon starting and is gradually closed after start up as electricity is applied to it's bimetalic strip which eventually closes the valve. This valve is not open when the engine is warm. So to start it needs the extra gas (from the injector) and the extra air (from the aux air device unless the engine is warm). Once it starts and the extra air and gas is turned off, the amount of gas from the injectors proper is determined by the temperature sensor (not the gas gauge sensor). So there are three sensors at the thermostat (the thermotime sensor, the temp sensor and the temp gauge sensor).

It can get a little confusing as there are three temp sensors, the cold start injector sometimes called a valve, the aux air device sometimes mistakenly referred to as a valve (which it is so in a sense not wrongly call that).

Clear as mud?[:o)]

I'm not sure what your are referring to by the "microswitch". Pictures are worth a thousand words. There is no choke light as there is no choke. The rich condition necessary to start a cold engine which accomplished by a choke plate in a carb is accomplished by the cold start valve (injector) on a FI engine.

As far as timing I know it doesn't conform to bolt on intake but it works. I have no idea as to the timing (I'll have to put a light on it sometime). The only anomaly I have is the vacuum is not connected to the distributor and the vacuum advance/retard plate seems fixed (pegged?). I never had occasion to get into it as it starts good, runs good on 87 octane (N/A method)(for 8 to 1 compression at least good enough for an MGB owner to ask if I had a 6 cylinder in it), gets good gas mileage (up to 40 but 36 is more typical). The only thing I did was clean and lube the mechanical advance).



- - -TR7 Spider - - - 1978 Spitfire- - - - 1976 Spitfire - - 1988 Tercel 4X4 - Kali on Integra - 1991 Integra - Yellow TCT

[lucr1967]

Thanks for the clear explanation, I'll try to adapt it to the car.

And Yes, I know ..I need to learn some TR terminology (last project was a suzuki SJ413 4x4..bit different)

I will try to make some pictures this evening to clarify what i was talking about .

for the dashboard 'choke' light i was reffering to the light right to the clock , as can be seen here ..

according to this picture , it"s a 1980 TR8 dashboard.

details on this site : http://www.triumphcars.com/current/wedg ... boards.htm
(scroll down to : This dash is a 1980 TR8 dashboard. US Law required an 80MPH speedometer.)

hope this already shed some light

[FI Spyder]

Checked my owners manual of my California car. It shows the choke light and in brackets it says (Canada only). California cars being fuel injected wouldn't use it and from the inference neither would the US federal cars which were carbed (automatic choke). Only the Canadian cars that would have a choke cable (optional?) would have need of it. As the instrument face plate would be the same for all, it is a dummy light for US cars.

- - -TR7 Spider - - - 1978 Spitfire- - - - 1976 Spitfire - - 1988 Tercel 4X4 - Kali on Integra - 1991 Integra - Yellow TCT

[lucr1967]

Ok, thanks again all for the very helpfull 'hand' you guys reached out..

it has been a while, did a lot however..a short update ..


cleaned and tested sparks OK
tested compression OK (110PSI all four , rock steady)
tested the fuel valves OK (replace all of O rings )
tested the fuel lines OK
re checked the dizzy alignment OK (according manual)
re checked the firing order OK (according manual)

still would not start ..now, by using some 'logic' i figured out that the spark seem to came to soon (engine beeing stalled by the igntition during starting) so i figured.. let me pull out and shift back the dizzy 1 tooth (CW) ,no more stalling during start but still not starting .. so i turned the cap as far as i could CCW ... guess what .. it started .. for a short time , going up to 3000RPM and then going down till stop ..

so i figured (i think) that somehow inside the dizzy the contacts must be misaligned, but glad anyway i heard it spinning , altough very short

Last week i also picked up the belgian paperwork so when this all this is cleared out i can prepare for MOT,tax and insurance...

best regards,
Luc

[Workshop Help]

Welcome, my Belgian friend, to the wide, wonderful, world of prior owner's screw-ups. The mind boggles at what other adventures you will encounter in sorting out this project. Please bear in mind it may not be only the prior owner(s) who have erred in their tinkering. Indeed, even, or especially, the dealer service departments were prone to mistakes, sometimes intentional.

Mildred Hargis

[lucr1967]

ok, fiddled a bit more (recieved the haynes manual too ... really helps )

the distributor is of the
Delco Remy Series D302 (page 163 haynes manual)

i have scouted the internet for a reason , all point to loose vacuum ,I however wonder ..to get it started i need to shift back the distributor 1(or 2 hard to tell) tooths (CW)

I wonder if i have to align the marking 10BDC and then put in the distributor pointing to the last bolt as described in the haynes manual with the light bulb example...

the workshop manual however says to align correct and then put in the distributor...

help welcome

Luc

[lucr1967]

ok ..after painstakingly going trough all the bits, parts,wires, testing each component individually (where possible) I'm now coming to the conclusion the the reason for not starting( altough sometimes for a very short time,when fiddling with the distributor) might or will be related to the cold start valve ..

I have voltage on the wires during start so i took out the valve, tested it by using 3 bar air and a 12v battery (with a engage switch) ..pressed some carb cleaner trough it but only after a while it sarted to spray..

i'm now looking for a replacement.. the new ones are made of gold IMHO .. seeing the price in respect to the size of the valve ..

cheers , luc

[Stag76]

Check that the resistance between the two terminals on the cold start valve is correct. If it is correct, then the solenoid is OK, so the valve might be blocked.

Fill the valve with general purpose paint thinners, and soak the nozzle in thinners for a couple of days, then run the thinners through it the same way as you did with the battery and air pressure. If it is a low resistance valve (ie less than 4 ohms resistance), you will have to use a resistor, or it may damage the coil.

You can run higher air pressure. I made a jig for cleaning injectors that uses 10bar air pressure to force paint thinners through them.



TR7 Convertible
Sprint Motor
MegaSquirt EFI

[mb4tim]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Century Gothic, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by lucr1967</i>

ok ..after painstakingly going trough all the bits, parts,wires, testing each component individually (where possible) I'm now coming to the conclusion the the reason for not starting( altough sometimes for a very short time,when fiddling with the distributor) might or will be related to the cold start valve<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The cold start valve is just a 5th injector, no? I got mine from a Porche parts vendor on the internet - maybe $50USD. It's a common Bosche part from the same era Volvo, VW, and Porche cars.

-Tim
http://www.morSpeedPerformance.com

[mb4tim]

I looked online at Rock Auto and found the Volvo part, http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinf ... cc=1287367, $61 (1980 Volvo 244) - looks like the only difference is the TR7 fuel line is clamped on. The Volvo part is a threaded connection. Looks like you could find a threaded adapter to change it to a clamp on.

-Tim
http://www.morSpeedPerformance.com

[lucr1967]

Thanks all fot the tips, it already works again, (i'm using a pulse timer with a lamp in series and 5 bar pressure ) let it run for a while , now it has a steady spray .as last , it's taking a soak now

as for replacement..the volvo find is great ! .. all other i looked up all came down to the same .. cars that use similar valves are :

Description Lucas Lucas Alternate Bosch
Bosch Alternate

Cold start injector EAC1383 EAC1338L 0 280 170 028 0 280 170 031


Alfa Romeo Spider (89-82)
Bertone X-1/9 (88-84)
BMW 325 Series (88-84)
BMW 528 Series (87-82)
Fiat Strada (82-80)
Fiat X-1/9 (83-80)
Renault R17 (77-75)
Renault R18i (83-81)
Triumph TR7 (81-80)
Volkswagen Beetle (79-75)


once the car is running i'll make up a full checklist , including ohms, volts ,check methodes of all parts ..

regs,
Luc