Anonymous

Rev limit

Here’s where to discuss anything specific about your standard(ish) car or something that applies to the model in general.
FI Spyder
TRemendous
Posts: 8920
Joined: 03 Jul 2006 19:54
Location: Canada

Postby FI Spyder » 04 Jan 2014 23:36

Despite the wedge shape (at least on the Coupe) you get huge amount of lift. Bob Tullius had to put a huge tail on the Group 44 car to keep it down.

Image



- - -TR7 Spider - - - 1978 Spitfire- - - - 1976 Spitfire - - 1988 Tercel 4X4 - Kali on Integra - 1991 Integra - Yellow TCT
Image

Graham.Fountain
Rust Hunter
Posts: 156
Joined: 26 Dec 2012 09:55
Location: United Kingdom
Contact:

Postby Graham.Fountain » 05 Jan 2014 11:22

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Century Gothic, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Despite the wedge shape (at least on the Coupe) you get huge amount of lift.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The air flowing over the car has further to travel than that underneath, so it's moving faster (relative to the car), and, according to Bernoulli, there is lower pressure above. Hence, as with an airfoil section, there will be lift even though the car has a wedge shape.

However, it's hard to explain how the front air dam creates a partial vacuum underneath, and thus reduces lift, by air speeds. This is partly why I prefer the Newtonian explanation, which, unlike the simple application of Bernoulli's law, explains how a wing gives lift when flying upside down.

The important question is, do you necessarily increase drag if you counter that aerodynamic lift by adding stuff to the bodywork?

Also, now that I'm more sober, I can give a better estimate for how much power to do 201 and 218 mph: If rolling resistance and aerodynamic drag were equal at 50 mph, which won't be exactly correct, but should be about right, then the power required at 109 mph would be (109/50) squared times the power needed to overcome rolling resistance at 50, plus (109/50) cubed times the power needed to overcome aerodynamic forces at 50 mph, which sum to, allowing for BLs inaccuracies, 105 hp:

POWER@50*(109/50)*(109/50) /2+ POWER@50*(109/50)*(109/50)*(109/50))/2 = POWER@109 = 105 hp.

POWER@50 = 105*2/((1+ (109/50))*(109/50)*(109/50) ) hp.

POWER@50 = 13.9 hp.

And:

POWER@201 = POWER@50*(201/50)*(201/50) /2+ POWER@50*(201/50)*(201/50)*(201/50)/2 hp.

POWER@201 =563.8 hp.
Which sounds more nearly like "well in excess of 500" than 658.4.

And:

POWER@218 = POWER@50*(218/50)*(218/50) /2+ POWER@50*(218/50)*(218/50)*(218/50)/2 hp.

POWER@218 = 707.9 hp.

So:

POWER@218/POWER@109 = 6.74.

That is, when allowing that the rolling losses are equal to aerodynamic ones at 50 mph, it really only takes 6.74 times as much power to go twice as fast as 109 mph, not 8 times as much. Still, 8 times wasn't that bad first approximation when having drink taken.



TR7 Sprint VVC 697S (some of)
TR7 Sprint A TR7 16V (fake, rusty):
B&Y '73 Doly Sprint (kids!)

FI Spyder
TRemendous
Posts: 8920
Joined: 03 Jul 2006 19:54
Location: Canada

Postby FI Spyder » 05 Jan 2014 13:23

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Century Gothic, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Graham.Fountain</i>


The important question is, do you necessarily increase drag if you counter that aerodynamic lift by adding stuff to the bodywork?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I think the answer would be yes. The goal however is maximum down force with minimum drag. The fastest car down the straight (less drag) isn't necessarily the fastest around the track. A good example of this is Red Bull in F1. That they (F1) take it to the nth degree is when some aerodynamic device gets knocked off and the car goes just as fast.

- - -TR7 Spider - - - 1978 Spitfire- - - - 1976 Spitfire - - 1988 Tercel 4X4 - Kali on Integra - 1991 Integra - Yellow TCT
Image

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 28 guests