FI Hard Starting/Poor Idle/Won't Run

[FI Spyder]

The Bosch part number on my build date July 190 is 0 280 000 187. Checked my spare and it's the same (whew). What's your build date Zeke? It looks like you have the later ECU. Doesn't really matter as it ran before disassembly but would be interesting to narrow down the change date. Does anyone know what the differences where other than the possible variable and on/off throttle switch. I don't think the TR7 ever received the hot wire air mass meter that came out after ( same looking unit but no moving parts).


TR7 Spider - 1978 Spitfire - 1976 Spitfire - 1988 Tercel 4X4 - Kali on Integra - 1991 Integra - Yellow TCT

[jbsjim]

Hi,
I had a chance to look at the ECUs last night. The one on the car right now is the same as F1s with numbers ending in "187". The one that does not work with my car ends with the digits "199" (it came with a pile of extra parts I bought a while ago). I can't find the other one I have in the basement somewhere. My guess, and it's just a guess at this point, is that the early cars (1980s) use the "187" and the later ones (1981s) the "199". I know my car does not work well with the later unit. I do not know where the transition happened.

Zeke, did you check to see if your car had that second restrictor in the solenoid circuit? If this is missing it might mess up your idle in a big way. As a test you could clamp the hose shut by the solenoid and see if it makes a difference. My car (1980 Caliornia version) does not have this parallel circuit.
Jim

[zekow1]

Do you mean the number 3 on this photo??




If this is what you are refering to ?
I misplaced it / I have two .Cant find them.

Tried to order it from VB They dont sell it anymore.

Here are some pics on were I placed the new grounds





And here is a pic on were I placed the pre-fuel-pump transparent filter


It's Alive ALL MOST

[FI Spyder]

Not sure how much the restrictor would affect things but it must have some effect. Don't have a 1981 manual, the solenoid #4 would be normally closed and open when?

TR7 Spider - 1978 Spitfire - 1976 Spitfire - 1988 Tercel 4X4 - Kali on Integra - 1991 Integra - Yellow TCT

[jbsjim]

Zeke,
That's the one. I'm like FI, I'm not sure what impact this part omission will have as I don't have it. In theory I think it might lean out the mixture at idle. I still think you should try clamping off the hose to the solenoid to see what it might do, if anything.

Last night I was tinkering around the engine bay and found that my vacuum retard on the distributor is no longer working [:(]. I have 3 of these dang vacuum units and none of them work. It would be nice to find one that does!
Jim

[IMG]

[jbsjim]

Zeke,
Are you sure that filter can handle the pressure and flow of the FI system? It looks like one you would use on a low pressure carb system. If it can't pass the flow it will really screw up the FI system.
Just a thought.
Jim

[IMG]

[zekow1]

What I understood is that the pressure starts after the fuel pump???
a Porche mecanic told me that is the way they solve the problem .

I will go for the fuel cap first to make sure it seals the system properly.

If that does not work I will crimp the hose a little bit to see if it makes a difference.



It's Alive ALL MOST

[FI Spyder]

Jim, if you don't need to pass emissions in your state just take off the retard to throttle body hose and block the spigot on the throttle body with a rubber cap. It won't make any difference to performance, only to emissions at idle and deceleration.

There is no pressure from tank to pump (it may be under slight vacuum) but I'm not sure how it will handle fuel flow which is in excess of what the carbs use (for pump cooling). Probably not a factor as long as it's not plugged. If it is plugged/restricts fuel flow the pump will get louder and the car will bog at higher rpm (2,500 rpm and up).


TR7 Spider - 1978 Spitfire - 1976 Spitfire - 1988 Tercel 4X4 - Kali on Integra - 1991 Integra - Yellow TCT

[Stag76]

A lot of EFI shops now recommend removing the Pre-pump filter. The thinking is that anything big enough to damage the pump will block the filter which will damage the pump anyway. In-tank pumps only have a sock that keeps the really big stuff out of the pump.

TR7 Convertible
Sprint Motor
MegaSquirt EFI

[jbsjim]

I don't think that type of filter is designed to pass enough fuel for a fuel injection system with recirculating fuel but I could easily be wrong. I do know the fuel flow rate is pretty high - I drained my old fuel from the tank (smelled awful and looked red!) awhile back with the pump and it put out about a gallon every minute or two. What it is when the system is all closed up I have no idea but at 36 psi you can move a lot of fuel through a gas line. Where's the fluids engineer?

FI, I'm in the Republic of California - they will check the idle speed and timing as well as emissions and EVERYTHING has to look just like the picture otherwise you fail. I love California but it's motor vehicle laws leave a lot to be desired.

On a positive note, while rummaging around in my parts bin yesterday I found a <u>really</u> beat up vacuum unit for the Delco dizzy that holds a vacuum! [:D] Last night I swapped the beautiful but nonworking vacuum off my spare dizzy with this ugly one and hopefully I can change the dizzy out on the car soon. I need to do it soon, it will 70 degrees around here this coming week.

Jim

[IMG]

[iedkwok]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Century Gothic, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by jbsjim</i>



Last night I was tinkering around the engine bay and found that my vacuum retard on the distributor is no longer working, It would be nice to find one that does!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The one on my 81' was not working either, I found a new one from the local auto part store (auto zone), They got it from http://www.msdignition.com/

[zekow1]

Hi Guys
Found the restrictor that goes in the idle solenoid hose.


installed it.
Could not find the fuel cap so I used plastic bag tape strap.
it sealed it good.


would not idle well so I also sealed the air hose going to the throttle body from the dizzy pump.

Well it worked , idled and it ran

I took it around the block kept my foot on the accelerator
it was erratic at best
then it died and would not start at all.

SO, I believe we are close but ,there must be something else wrong.

i took the plugs out, they where carboned.

I will check the switches by the ECU connector
with meter ,one by one .

If you guys can think of anything else???

It's Alive ALL MOST

[FI Spyder]

I don't know if the gas cap is a complete seal or a limited seal. I know my current on leaks a little as I can hear the air being sucked past the seal when I turn it off and it still runs good. I've got another I'm going to try when I put it together. I would try a pin hole in the plastic to see if that makes a difference. Regardless you shouldn't have carboned plugs. It's getting too much gas but can't think of why. What is the part number of your injectors? You put on a new throttle switch but there are two types, variable resistor and on/off type where injectors are controlled by coil feed only (except for full throttle). What type is on there? I think your later ECU uses the latter.

O2 sensor shouldn't be a problem as it's just a fine tuning device, some BMW's didn't even have one.

If cold start injector continues to fire it would run rich.



TR7 Spider - 1978 Spitfire - 1976 Spitfire - 1988 Tercel 4X4 - Kali on Integra - 1991 Integra - Yellow TCT

[jbsjim]

This one is quite a challenge Zeke! Do me a favor and take a reading of the timing at idle and at about 3000 rpm. I would like to see what advance you are really getting. After the engine warms up a little you can unplug the Bosch plug to the thermotime switch and that will switch off the cold start injector if you think it is pumping fuel too long (its only supposed to work for half a minute or so). This post has been going on so long I've forgotten a bit of what you've done Zeke. Have you checked the fuel pressure after the regulator? I agree with FIs suggestions on the injectors and the throttle switch. Your car is different than mine I believe (80 vs. 81) so I'm just not sure about some of these things. Putting the restrictor in the hose has to be a good thing. One thing I thought of that can mess you up is a dirty connection to the air meter. Clean this long connection up real well.
Jim

[IMG]

[jbsjim]

iedkwok,
That's actually amazing that you found one. I may mosey over there myself to see what they can find for me. Do you mind if I ask how much it set you back?
Jim

[IMG]