Anonymous

K&N air filters

The all purpose forum for any TR7/8 related topics.
Beans
TRemendous
Posts: 7769
Joined: 15 Mar 2006 19:29
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: K&N air filters

Postby Beans » 01 Sep 2017 18:37

David Vizard did just that many years ago and wrote it all down in his book "Tuning BL's A-series Engine"
Most important is that you'll have to find the correct jet/needle combination for the optimum performance.
Image
1976 TR7 FHC (currently being restored ...)
1980 TR7 DHC (my first car, a.k.a. Kermette)
1981 TR7 FHC (Sprint engined a.k.a. 't Kreng)

http://www.tr7beans.blogspot.com/

Hasbeen
TRemendous
Posts: 6474
Joined: 28 Apr 2005 12:32
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: K&N air filters

Postby Hasbeen » 02 Sep 2017 01:51

John_C wrote:Short of changing the camshaft to a higher lift item I think the best thing you can do to a TR7 is to remove the original fan and the whole pulley assembly and stick an electric on. K&N air filters might not do a darned thing other than affect cold running... badly.


The only reason for fitting a higher lift camshaft to an engine is to allow more air/fuel mixture into it. More air/fuel mixture is the only way to get more power from an engine. It must of course be the right air/fuel mixture. Letting in more air with the same amount of fuel simply gives you a lean mixture, overheating & poor running. Thus fitting good air filters badly, [not properly tuned], will be detrimental.

The fact that a 7 goes into fuel starvation when the horrible stock filter is replaced without any increase in fuel shows how restrictive the filter really is. I doubt a high lift cam would have much effect, other than to make the idle rough, when you stop any extra fuel air mixture getting into the thing with that restrictive filter. I wonder how many have been disappointed after fitting a "sports" cam, when they did not retune the inlet air system.

All these things must work together. Just fitting a set of extractor headers will not do much for performance if you don't also fit a better muffler system, & a larger bore tail pipe.

I did once mention loosing 500 RPM off the top of my Cosworth Ford Brabham F2 rev range, when the back 15 inches of pipe fell off during a race. The thing just dropped it's bundle 500 RPM earlier without the extractor working properly.

An even stronger example of restricting the inlet air flow was with my new 1962 Morgan +4. In those more easy going days, Morgans did not bother with air cleaners, as it was hard to fit any with their bonnet shape. When I ordered the car I ordered the optional air filter system.

This consisted of an air box, similar in many ways to ours, but tapered from front to back to fit behind the bonnet, with a single filter fitted at the back. This was behind some bonnet louvers, so had access to cool air.

The first time I did a speed run with it, I was horrified to find it went onto 2 cylinders at 85 MPH, about 4250 RPM. The back carb took all the available air, starving the front 2 cylinders. As I knew unfiltered +4s did not do this I suspected the air filter system. With out tools with me to unbolt the air box, I simply removed the air filter from the box.

With this air flow restriction removed the thing would happily rev to 55000 RPM, & I expect to destruction if asked. I had learnt the performance robbing effect of restricting the air flow. That Morgan never again saw an air filter, & none of my cars have since had restricted air flow.

As Beans says, the tuning must be right. Note, I don't use K&N filters on the 7, although we do on the 8, I use Ram Flow filters. I also don't bother with a cold air feed on the 7, although I do on the 8. With the 330 BHP 8, & the 255 BHP S2000 Honda, I don't treat my 7 as a performance car at all. I have it because it is the nicest car I have ever driven on a long trip, & has "adequate" performance as the saying goes.

Incidentally, I'm not sure changing to electric fan will increase the power available at the clutch, depending on how good your natural non fan assisted cooling is. The twin fans on the 8, one in front & one behind the radiator draw 35 amps when both are running. I doubt the engine driven fan requires that much power. If they had to run at high performance operation, rather than just in heavy traffic operation, I think they would be detrimental.

Just my thoughts.

Hasbeen

John_C
Rust Hunter
Posts: 219
Joined: 06 May 2015 17:02
Contact:

Re: K&N air filters

Postby John_C » 02 Sep 2017 13:28

Removing that whole fan housing assembly was one of the first things I did to my TR7 and there was an immediate, noticeable improvement. All of a sudden the engine wanted to rev and performance was more brisk. Power surely couldn't have increased so it can only have been due to the removal of that rather large pulley which must have been restricting the engine.

If installed with all the other associated improvements to engine breathing I'm sure K&N filters will work well but I'm not so sure about some of the tiddly little versions I see some people install. If they're not the deep filters then I wouldn't bother. There used to be a K&N element available that went inside the standard TR7 air filter box and I suspect this may be the best way to go unless you're like Beans and myself and have the full upgrade kits installed which includes side-draught Webers. At least with the standard air filter box there is little chance of upsetting the running in cold weather. I have had the petrol ice in the carbs on my car so I have to ensure the engine is fully up to temperature in the coldest Winter weather before heading out onto the road.
The Best TR7 & TR8 Documentaries Ever Produced Available Here:
www.triumphdvd.co.uk

Hasbeen
TRemendous
Posts: 6474
Joined: 28 Apr 2005 12:32
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: K&N air filters

Postby Hasbeen » 02 Sep 2017 15:07

Fortunately in Queensland Oz, I am never going to have to worry about icing.

Where are you John?

Hasbeen

Rich K
Wedge Pilot
Posts: 277
Joined: 08 Aug 2015 18:04
Location: Worcester, United Kingdom

Re: K&N air filters

Postby Rich K » 03 Sep 2017 09:45

Some years ago Triumph Tune did an article detailing tuning modifications for the TR7. This included the effect on engine power of the various stages of adding sports exhaust, tubular manifold, K&N filters, richer needles for the SU carbs, and high lift cam and Webber carbs, as well as reprofiled valves and bronze valve guides. They published figures for the various mods which showed significant increases in power particularly at higher revs. Worthwhile gains were made on SUs in combination with the improved breathing, richer needles and better exhaust. I can verify that this works as I have this set up on my 2 litre car. I did also smooth out the ports in the head and matched tracts to gasket size to eliminate any restrictions to gas flow. The car revs more freely and pulls significantly better above about 3000 revs. It also sounds much nicer!
Rich.
1980 TR7 drophead now repainted and started refitting plus V8 upgrade
1977 TR7 fixedhead awaiting restoration
1981 TR7 drophead bodywork now done, mechanicals next then final paint
Ford Ranger Wildtrak
Jaguar XKR Supercharged

busheytrader
TRemendous
Posts: 3145
Joined: 14 Oct 2007 17:49
Location: United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: K&N air filters

Postby busheytrader » 03 Sep 2017 12:01

I posted the Triumphtune article on the forum a while back, but of course it's been locked up by photobucket. I'm trying to post it via another site. For K&N filters plus tubular manifolds and a free flowing exhaust the CCC article in June 1984 fitted BAL needles. Since it was such a simple bolt on mod there wasn't much else about it except It released another 8 bhp on their standard 100bhp 15k car. They then modified the head and fitted Webbers to give 142bhp.

From the tuning manuals I've read, once you change the breathing whether exhaust or intake or both, the SU carbs view of the world changes and you're up for a needle change which could be different across all 3 scenarios.
Last edited by busheytrader on 03 Sep 2017 18:47, edited 1 time in total.

John_C
Rust Hunter
Posts: 219
Joined: 06 May 2015 17:02
Contact:

Re: K&N air filters

Postby John_C » 03 Sep 2017 15:22

The best TriumphTune TR7 articles were in 'Sports Car Monthly in August and September 1985. That got me hooked. I seriously doubt the 140+BHP figures all these writers estimated though. Years ago I saw 121BHP on the rolling road dyno for my own car (may have been 118BHP but I can't remember for sure) but now I wonder if that really was at the wheels.
The Best TR7 & TR8 Documentaries Ever Produced Available Here:
www.triumphdvd.co.uk

busheytrader
TRemendous
Posts: 3145
Joined: 14 Oct 2007 17:49
Location: United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: K&N air filters

Postby busheytrader » 03 Sep 2017 18:56

Ok, finally managed to post photos from Imgur

Copy of the Triumphtune article from CCC

Adam

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

simps
Scuttle Shaker
Posts: 70
Joined: 24 May 2017 14:04

Re: K&N air filters

Postby simps » 04 Sep 2017 12:29

Nice Work, Adam!

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 87 guests

cron