Just add water rust remover

[busheytrader]

Has anyone used this stuff to remove rust from components and / or bodywork?

http://www.bilthamber.com/deoxc.html

It comes in a gel as well for the bigger bits that won't fit in a bucket or trough. It's been advertised in Practical Classics a while. Is it better than sand blasting?

Adam



TR7 V8 DHC Jaguar Solent Blue. 9.35cr Range Rover V8, Holley 390cfm, JWR Dual Port, 214 Cam, Lumention, Tubular Manifolds, S/S Single Pipe Exh, 3.08 Rear, 200lb Spax & PolyBushes all round, Anti- Dive, Strut-Top Roller Bearings, Capri Vented Discs & Calipers, Braided Hoses, 4 Speed Rear Cylinders, Uprated Master Cylinder & Servo, AT 5 Spokes and Cruise Lights, S/S Heater Pipes, Replacement Fuel Tank. No Door Stickers. Mine since July 1986, V8 from 1991

[Marko]

all of the rust removers are some form of some acid.

most commonly used is phosphoric acid,

same goes for sodium carbonate or caustic soda electrolytic rust removal

you make the H+ ions that are the acid itself ( that's the way of measuring acidity of something pH )


whether you make your own acid by electrolysis or buy a bucket of acid ( in liquid or solid form ) its up to you.

just take care of your skin and eyes when handling acids

as for the acids, most of them have to be neutralized before painting, except phosphoric acid, oh and avoid anything with chlorine ions or chlorine based.

[gslittle]

Hi

I used Deoxc and it seemed to do what it said on the tin (or plastic bottle). As I recall it took a little more product and more time than expected, but I'm happy to put that down to user error or local conditions.

Cheers

Graham


1979 TR7 TCT DHC 16V
Formerly...
1980 TR7 FHC
1980 Factory TR8 DHC
1980 Factory TR8 DHC Automatic
1977 TR7 FHC Parts Car
1980 TR7 FHC Parts Car

[FI Spyder]

Any acid will work from vinegar to phosphoric acid. The weaker the acid the longer it takes. That why soft drinks work as they have carbolic acid in them but are expensive way to go.

If you use the electrolysis method (battery charger and washing soda) it is cheap $5 for big box of Arm & Hammer from Walmart (1 heaping tablespoon per gallon) plus the cost of electricity (not much as it's a trickle charge). The rust turns to black which can then be wire brushed off by hand). As it is a weak process the part can be left in an extended period without adverse effects.

My preferable method is molasses. It uses weak acid process (from fermentation). It takes about a week to get going as the molasses has an antifungal ingrediant. Cost is $17 per pail (from animal feed stores). Dilute ten to one. I use a five gallon pail for smaller parts and a kids play pool ($10 from Walmart) for bigger parts like the spare wheel well I got from Shaun. One pail of molasses filled both (with dilution). I also have a trough I made from wood, plastic cardboard and silicone to seal for longer parts like bumpers. The advantage is you can leave part in an indeterminate longer time (like electrolysis) but unlike electrolysis it washes off with garden hose much easier (the best part). Little or no brushing required. It doesn't appear to have a life span (so far).

The acidic action will loosen any paint that doesn't have a firm bond to the metal. No zinc is deposited so parts will start rusting again if they aren't primed and painted.

Wish I had a big tank I could dunk my Yellow TCT into.[:)]

Often after the molasses treatment if I'm not going to paint the part right away I will spray a little Metal Ready on the part to give it the zinc coating which also acts as a good paint primer.


TR7 Spider - 1978 Spifire - 1976 Spitfire - 1988 Tercel 4X4 - Kali on Integra - 1991 Integra

[prlee]

I have used their products, simply put its like nothing else, it doesn't convert rust. just disolves it without disolving the metal. It is water based not acid and can be disposed of down the drain. It leaves an oily film which needs to be cleaned before painting.

For general derusting I use pure acid (hydrochoric I think but had it 30 years since I got it so cannot remember) The bilthamber products are completly different, don't know how it works but it doesn't attack the original metal like an acid does.

For small parts I mix some Deox C poweder with copious amounts of hoy water and leave for 24 hrs.

Pete
81 DHC (Under body resto)
79 Spitfire (Current Main drive)

[busheytrader]

Thanks for the comments everyone. I liked the idea of dropping rusty items in a bucket of relatively harmless stuff, leaving them for about a week or more and then washing and priming / painting them.

Adam

[yorkens]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Century Gothic, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by busheytrader</i>

Has anyone used this stuff to remove rust from components and / or bodywork?



Adam



TR7 V8 DHC Jaguar Solent Blue. 9.35cr Range Rover V8, Holley 390cfm, JWR Dual Port, 214 Cam, Lumention, Tubular Manifolds, S/S Single Pipe Exh, 3.08 Rear, 200lb Spax & PolyBushes all round, Anti- Dive, Strut-Top Roller Bearings, Capri Vented Discs & Calipers, Braided Hoses, 4 Speed Rear Cylinders, Uprated Master Cylinder & Servo, AT 5 Spokes and Cruise Lights, S/S Heater Pipes, Replacement Fuel Tank. No Door Stickers. Mine since July 1986, V8 from 1991
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I have used this on my car, and it´s pretty weak stuff! The main problem with this product is that it dries out too soon, i.e: you can´t leave it on the metal long enough to do it´s job; you must remove the old coat every hour or so, and re-apply more coats, otherwise it turns into a hard mass that has to be scraped off, as i once discovered when i left it overnight in an attempt to remove the deepest rust; even after countless applications (wire brushing the old coats off), there was still rust in the most pitted areas; in the end i gave up all the hassle. I´ve gone back to the trusty phosphoric acid. I have some methods of applying this to vertical, and even overhead areas, etc, but it´s a very slow process, that also needs the aid of some simple tools to speed up the process, the end result being just as good as the very messy, expensive and noisy sandblasting, but i would only recommend this method if you have great patience and determination as i have!
I can give a few tips i use for the "phosphoric" approach if anyone´s interested.

[prlee]

I find overnight with the liquid is usually fine 2 days max - but keep it at room temp. The gel I leave for a few hours or overnight. As I said I still use acid on the main body, horses for courses.

I just don't use the off the shelf rust killers any more.

Pete
81 DHC (Under body resto)
79 Spitfire (Current Main drive)

[yorkens]

I would like to specify that i haven´t tried the Deox-c (for mixing with water), that product is probably OK. The one i´ve tried is the Deox gel, that, as i said, is just not up to the job for anything but mild rust with virtually no pitting.
I still have a spare new unopened bottle that i have no intention of using; any offers?
I´ve also had parts dipped in phosphoric acid for days with no visible damage to the steel, that came up bright as soon as it was wire brushed.
Hydrochloric acid is very effective in removing rust but also at dissolving steel, if tou leave it long enough. I´ve never been to fussy about security or prevention but i don´t recommend Hydrochloric acid, specially indoors; it gives of very toxic fumes that are very bad for the mucous membrane and eyes, even wearing a mask; and it´s not just what i read about this acid; it´s my own experience, (i regret to say that i´ve learnt the hard way!) And there´s even a few more inconveniences using this acid but i´ve outlined the most important aspects.

I think our experience acquired should be used in this forum not only to advise others what they ought to do but what they shouldn't!

George

[Johnluss]

Thanks for the tips. Pls explain how to hook positive and negative on a part.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Century Gothic, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by FI Spyder</i>

Any acid will work from vinegar to phosphoric acid. The weaker the acid the longer it takes. That why soft drinks work as they have carbolic acid in them but are expensive way to go.

If you use the electrolysis method (battery charger and washing soda) it is cheap $5 for big box of Arm & Hammer from Walmart (1 heaping tablespoon per gallon) plus the cost of electricity (not much as it's a trickle charge). The rust turns to black which can then be wire brushed off by hand). As it is a weak process the part can be left in an extended period without adverse effects.

My preferable method is molasses. It uses weak acid process (from fermentation). It takes about a week to get going as the molasses has an antifungal ingrediant. Cost is $17 per pail (from animal feed stores). Dilute ten to one. I use a five gallon pail for smaller parts and a kids play pool ($10 from Walmart) for bigger parts like the spare wheel well I got from Shaun. One pail of molasses filled both (with dilution). I also have a trough I made from wood, plastic cardboard and silicone to seal for longer parts like bumpers. The advantage is you can leave part in an indeterminate longer time (like electrolysis) but unlike electrolysis it washes off with garden hose much easier (the best part). Little or no brushing required. It doesn't appear to have a life span (so far).

The acidic action will loosen any paint that doesn't have a firm bond to the metal. No zinc is deposited so parts will start rusting again if they aren't primed and painted.

Wish I had a big tank I could dunk my Yellow TCT into.[:)]

Often after the molasses treatment if I'm not going to paint the part right away I will spray a little Metal Ready on the part to give it the zinc coating which also acts as a good paint primer.


TR7 Spider - 1978 Spifire - 1976 Spitfire - 1988 Tercel 4X4 - Kali on Integra - 1991 Integra

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

[FI Spyder]

As you can see the positive (red) connect to metal rod (rebar) and negative connects to part in water. I use cheap jumper cables as an intermediary to protect charger clamps.


TR7 Spider - 1978 Spifire - 1976 Spitfire - 1988 Tercel 4X4 - Kali on Integra - 1991 Integra